7 ms·

I have seen the people who get EVs. I have seen the people who shop at Walmart. These people are not the same.

by andrewclunn 4y ago

starbase 4y ago
They will be the same people in the blink of an eye. It's almost a certainty.
- Casteil 4y ago
  ...not until more EVs are available in the $20-30k price range. Most people can't afford new vehicles @ $30k+
  - kcb 4y ago
    No one at almost any income level buys small cheap $20k - $30k cars. They take out a loan to buy an F150, RAM, or midsized crossover. Or buy used. *In the US
    - nojito 4y ago
      Of course they do. That’s why the Corolla is as popular as it is.
      - kcb 4y ago
        https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39628015/best-selling-cars-2022/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=arb_dda_ga_cd_md_bm_prog_org_us_g39628015 https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39628015/best-selling-car... It's on the list sure, but no sedan is the massive mainstream seller that they used to be.
        prottog 4y ago
        If we exclude the Big 3 pickups from this list due to the outsized impact of fleet purchases on those numbers, the Camry is the second-best selling car of 2022, behind the RAV4. Honestly, I'm impressed that the humble sedan is holding on as much as it is!
        bdcravens 4y ago
        Pickups are common personal vehicles.
  - ajford 4y ago
    There's at least 5 models now in that range new, and the number of EV models now hitting that price range as pre-owned is increasing each year. People have been repeating the "there's no affordable evs" line so long it's now no longer true. https://www.truecar.com/best-cars-trucks/fuel-electric/price-under-35000/ https://www.truecar.com/best-cars-trucks/fuel-electric/price... https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/best-used-electric-cars-under-30000/ https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/best-used-electric-cars-under-...
    - starbase 4y ago
      Subtract $7500 for the federal EV rebate and up to $7500 for state rebates, and some buyers will see starting prices under $15k.
    - hnburnsy 4y ago
      Go ahead and click through, on that top 10 list, only the 2018 Tesla 3 actual had any availability for sale within 50 miles of my location.
      - ajford 4y ago
        Conversely, only the e-golf and Fiat are unavailable within 50 miles of my location in Central Texas. All others have 4-10 vehicles available in my area. The e-golf and fiat are available delivered if I was really dead-set on those. None of that negates my point in any way.
  - bdcravens 4y ago
    Averages suggest otherwise: the average new car price in December was $49k, and the average Ford pickup was $66k. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/01/the-average-new-car-price-reached-49075-in-december/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/01/the-average-new-car-pri... If you look at the top 25, many are over that $30k number: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39628015/best-selling-cars-2022/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39628015/best-selling-car...
c0nfused 4y ago
Walmart recently signed a contract to buy a bunch of ev delivery vehicles. So worst case they can charge their own cars with them
- bdcravens 4y ago
  Already happening: At many EA charging stations in Walmart parking lots, it's not uncommon to see 1 or 2 being taken up by Walmart delivery vehicles.
ajford 4y ago
Or they're people who see the convenience and flexibility of an EV and are comfortable with purchasing a used EV. If you're not a Musk fan, the field is becoming competitive. There's a handful of models with 150+mi range that are in the <$30k USD bracket when new, and many models on the used market are now <$30k USD as well. And just because you are charging at WalMart doesn't mean you need to be shopping there on the regular. An EV fast-charger is not designed to be your neighborhood gas station, they're more like travel stops. Since most EVs will sit in a driveway for 8-10hrs a day, even a 120v charger should get you ~40 miles in that time frame. You should ideally be able to keep your vehicle topped up on Level 1 or Level 2 (240v) charging and DC Fast Charging is more of a road-trip or extended range system. Most fast-charge capable cars can hit go from 10%-80% in 30-45 minutes, which is a decent amount of time to hit a convenient Wal-Mart for travel snacks and leg stretching. It sounds like a valid idea when put that way.
- dzhiurgis 4y ago
  > If you're not a Musk fan, the field is becoming competitive In my place you get 20% less for 10% more, but Tesla still looks flashy and I feel a bit like a wanker. Much worse for my partner who hoards free stuff, esp kids toys from giveaway FB groups :|
  - uni_rule 4y ago
    Funny how they still have an image issue related to being driven by rich vegans or whatever else people think of them they see them. It made more sense in 2014 when seeing a Model S was as exotic as seeing a McLaren. Now I am fairly desensitized to seeing Model 3's and Y's as commuter cars between NJ and NY and the merely seeing badge doesn't really do anything for me these days. It's weird how much a car's price and perceived price can vary when you actually look at how things depreciate. Seeing a Quattroporte and F-150 King Ranch next to each other and noting that used the Maserati is a $15k car and while the truck is nearly $75k is really odd. Teslas hardly depreciate at all through, so I guess that adds to it.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
beders 4y ago
There are already many Electrify America stations at Walmarts and - yes - it makes me shop @ Walmart and I get to experience all that weirdness. Over the last 2 years these charging spots went from "barely used" to "gotta get lucky to find a charger".
melling 4y ago
Only 1.4 million people bought an iPhone in 2007. 20 million in 2009. Over 200 million in 2015. Now the numbers won’t nearly be the same but hopefully it’s enough to end this silly conversation. Here are some Tesla numbers that go back 7 years. Now add several car companies then extrapolate https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-vehicle-deliveries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-v...
yuppie_scum 4y ago
But Walmart has found a way to attract the EV owner, if they pull this off.
hnburnsy 4y ago
Many people who like saving on gas, also like saving on groceries.
bdcravens 4y ago
Most Electrify America charging stations I've encountered are in Walmarts already.
thatfrenchguy 4y ago
You ever been at a ElectrifyAmerica station?
djak250 4y ago
Which is why they're adding the chargers. To add a new swath of potential customers. They don't need to advertise with existing customers. Those customers aren't going anywhere.
eternityforest 4y ago
Right now EVs are expensive and charging stations are everywhere. Cheap and easy always seems to win over any kind of politics or love of a certain type of real product. Right now, you buy EVs because you care about the environment or want people to think you do, or because you're a tech enthusiast, but everyone else seems to have some sentimentality for gas engines.

I have seen the people who get EVs. I have seen the people who shop at Walmart. These people are not the same.

starbase 4y ago

They will be the same people in the blink of an eye. It's almost a certainty.

Casteil 4y ago
...not until more EVs are available in the $20-30k price range. Most people can't afford new vehicles @ $30k+
- kcb 4y ago
  No one at almost any income level buys small cheap $20k - $30k cars. They take out a loan to buy an F150, RAM, or midsized crossover. Or buy used. *In the US
  - nojito 4y ago
    Of course they do. That’s why the Corolla is as popular as it is.
    - kcb 4y ago
      https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39628015/best-selling-cars-2022/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=arb_dda_ga_cd_md_bm_prog_org_us_g39628015 https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39628015/best-selling-car... It's on the list sure, but no sedan is the massive mainstream seller that they used to be.
      - prottog 4y ago
        If we exclude the Big 3 pickups from this list due to the outsized impact of fleet purchases on those numbers, the Camry is the second-best selling car of 2022, behind the RAV4. Honestly, I'm impressed that the humble sedan is holding on as much as it is!
        bdcravens 4y ago
        Pickups are common personal vehicles.
- ajford 4y ago
  There's at least 5 models now in that range new, and the number of EV models now hitting that price range as pre-owned is increasing each year. People have been repeating the "there's no affordable evs" line so long it's now no longer true. https://www.truecar.com/best-cars-trucks/fuel-electric/price-under-35000/ https://www.truecar.com/best-cars-trucks/fuel-electric/price... https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/best-used-electric-cars-under-30000/ https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/best-used-electric-cars-under-...
  - starbase 4y ago
    Subtract $7500 for the federal EV rebate and up to $7500 for state rebates, and some buyers will see starting prices under $15k.
  - hnburnsy 4y ago
    Go ahead and click through, on that top 10 list, only the 2018 Tesla 3 actual had any availability for sale within 50 miles of my location.
    - ajford 4y ago
      Conversely, only the e-golf and Fiat are unavailable within 50 miles of my location in Central Texas. All others have 4-10 vehicles available in my area. The e-golf and fiat are available delivered if I was really dead-set on those. None of that negates my point in any way.
- bdcravens 4y ago
  Averages suggest otherwise: the average new car price in December was $49k, and the average Ford pickup was $66k. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/01/the-average-new-car-price-reached-49075-in-december/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/01/the-average-new-car-pri... If you look at the top 25, many are over that $30k number: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39628015/best-selling-cars-2022/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g39628015/best-selling-car...

c0nfused 4y ago

Walmart recently signed a contract to buy a bunch of ev delivery vehicles. So worst case they can charge their own cars with them

bdcravens 4y ago
Already happening: At many EA charging stations in Walmart parking lots, it's not uncommon to see 1 or 2 being taken up by Walmart delivery vehicles.

ajford 4y ago

Or they're people who see the convenience and flexibility of an EV and are comfortable with purchasing a used EV. If you're not a Musk fan, the field is becoming competitive. There's a handful of models with 150+mi range that are in the <$30k USD bracket when new, and many models on the used market are now <$30k USD as well. And just because you are charging at WalMart doesn't mean you need to be shopping there on the regular. An EV fast-charger is not designed to be your neighborhood gas station, they're more like travel stops. Since most EVs will sit in a driveway for 8-10hrs a day, even a 120v charger should get you ~40 miles in that time frame. You should ideally be able to keep your vehicle topped up on Level 1 or Level 2 (240v) charging and DC Fast Charging is more of a road-trip or extended range system. Most fast-charge capable cars can hit go from 10%-80% in 30-45 minutes, which is a decent amount of time to hit a convenient Wal-Mart for travel snacks and leg stretching. It sounds like a valid idea when put that way.

dzhiurgis 4y ago
> If you're not a Musk fan, the field is becoming competitive In my place you get 20% less for 10% more, but Tesla still looks flashy and I feel a bit like a wanker. Much worse for my partner who hoards free stuff, esp kids toys from giveaway FB groups :|
- uni_rule 4y ago
  Funny how they still have an image issue related to being driven by rich vegans or whatever else people think of them they see them. It made more sense in 2014 when seeing a Model S was as exotic as seeing a McLaren. Now I am fairly desensitized to seeing Model 3's and Y's as commuter cars between NJ and NY and the merely seeing badge doesn't really do anything for me these days. It's weird how much a car's price and perceived price can vary when you actually look at how things depreciate. Seeing a Quattroporte and F-150 King Ranch next to each other and noting that used the Maserati is a $15k car and while the truck is nearly $75k is really odd. Teslas hardly depreciate at all through, so I guess that adds to it.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago

beders 4y ago

There are already many Electrify America stations at Walmarts and - yes - it makes me shop @ Walmart and I get to experience all that weirdness. Over the last 2 years these charging spots went from "barely used" to "gotta get lucky to find a charger".

melling 4y ago

Only 1.4 million people bought an iPhone in 2007. 20 million in 2009. Over 200 million in 2015. Now the numbers won’t nearly be the same but hopefully it’s enough to end this silly conversation. Here are some Tesla numbers that go back 7 years. Now add several car companies then extrapolate https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-vehicle-deliveries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-v...

yuppie_scum 4y ago

But Walmart has found a way to attract the EV owner, if they pull this off.

hnburnsy 4y ago

Many people who like saving on gas, also like saving on groceries.

bdcravens 4y ago

Most Electrify America charging stations I've encountered are in Walmarts already.

thatfrenchguy 4y ago

You ever been at a ElectrifyAmerica station?

djak250 4y ago

Which is why they're adding the chargers. To add a new swath of potential customers. They don't need to advertise with existing customers. Those customers aren't going anywhere.

eternityforest 4y ago

Right now EVs are expensive and charging stations are everywhere. Cheap and easy always seems to win over any kind of politics or love of a certain type of real product. Right now, you buy EVs because you care about the environment or want people to think you do, or because you're a tech enthusiast, but everyone else seems to have some sentimentality for gas engines.