17 ms·

If society shouldn't try to make everyone's life better, what's the point of society?

tdrgabi 4y ago
Make most of the people's life better. Everyone is an impossible target. Maybe make the life better for more than the alternatives
- bumby 4y ago
  This seems to cozy up to Utilitarianism, which has it's own problems. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism#Criticisms_and_Responses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism#Criticisms_and_...
  - tdrgabi 4y ago
    I was trying to reply to the Everyone part in: If society can't make everyone happy, what's the point.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - bumby 4y ago
      Right. Depending on the take, your aligns with the utilitarian perspective as well. You don't need to make everyone happy, as long as it leads to the "greatest good" (rule utilitarianism) or the "highest average happiness" (average utilitarianism). My point is that this perspective is not devoid of philosophical problems.
deepsun 4y ago
There are many other ideals, it borders philosophy actually. For example I can think of (obviously exaggerated) example: everyone lives absolutely happy as they are, but climate worsens so much than no one survives. In about 500 million years oceans will boil anyway. But fixing that will require many people to be unhappy. PS: > what's the point of society? Survival? Space expansion? Ubermensch / AI? Why, as you say, hedonism is the ultimate goal?
- thesuitonym 4y ago
  Who said anything about hedonism? How about just making sure everyone has what they need to live comfortably?
  - deepsun 4y ago
    I'm probably using exaggerated word again, sorry, not native speaker. I'm just questioning why "Live comfortably" is an axiom. It's a natural human desire, yes, just as other animals, but I'm not so sure we should maximize that as a society. Many exciting and proud things I did in my life were outside my comfort zone. E.g. a lot of drug addicts can vouch that their current comfort zone is not what they would want, but there's no one around to force them through tears and sweat to change it. Same thing can be said about sugar or, I dunno, comfortable cars. (I'm exaggerating again :)
    - bumby 4y ago
      I think what you're alluding to is the distinction between eudaimonic and hedonic wellbeing.
    - blep_ 4y ago
      "Comfortably" doesn't refer to comfort zones here, but is used in the "without major difficulty" sense (that is, one's needs are met to the point they're not stressed about food/shelter/medical care/etc.)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

Make most of the people's life better. Everyone is an impossible target. Maybe make the life better for more than the alternatives

bumby 4y ago
This seems to cozy up to Utilitarianism, which has it's own problems. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism#Criticisms_and_Responses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism#Criticisms_and_...
- tdrgabi 4y ago
  I was trying to reply to the Everyone part in: If society can't make everyone happy, what's the point.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - bumby 4y ago
    Right. Depending on the take, your aligns with the utilitarian perspective as well. You don't need to make everyone happy, as long as it leads to the "greatest good" (rule utilitarianism) or the "highest average happiness" (average utilitarianism). My point is that this perspective is not devoid of philosophical problems.

deepsun 4y ago

There are many other ideals, it borders philosophy actually. For example I can think of (obviously exaggerated) example: everyone lives absolutely happy as they are, but climate worsens so much than no one survives. In about 500 million years oceans will boil anyway. But fixing that will require many people to be unhappy. PS: > what's the point of society? Survival? Space expansion? Ubermensch / AI? Why, as you say, hedonism is the ultimate goal?

thesuitonym 4y ago
Who said anything about hedonism? How about just making sure everyone has what they need to live comfortably?
- deepsun 4y ago
  I'm probably using exaggerated word again, sorry, not native speaker. I'm just questioning why "Live comfortably" is an axiom. It's a natural human desire, yes, just as other animals, but I'm not so sure we should maximize that as a society. Many exciting and proud things I did in my life were outside my comfort zone. E.g. a lot of drug addicts can vouch that their current comfort zone is not what they would want, but there's no one around to force them through tears and sweat to change it. Same thing can be said about sugar or, I dunno, comfortable cars. (I'm exaggerating again :)
  - bumby 4y ago
    I think what you're alluding to is the distinction between eudaimonic and hedonic wellbeing.
  - blep_ 4y ago
    "Comfortably" doesn't refer to comfort zones here, but is used in the "without major difficulty" sense (that is, one's needs are met to the point they're not stressed about food/shelter/medical care/etc.)

deleted 4y ago

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