4 ms·

Most people thinking about suicide don’t tell anyone

24 points by headalgorithm 3y ago

whitemary 3y ago
It's a rational decision. Capitalism enforces para-social behavior and ostracizing the weak.
- halJordan 3y ago
  Capitalism that great bogeyman in the sky. I can only imagine this is what people felt during the Cold War when they had to deal with that one person who just always had to make it about communism. The more things change the more they stay the same.
  - antifa 3y ago
    Despite the cold war ending in 1989, there's no shortage of people declaring random things are about communism.
kelseyfrog 3y ago
Why would they? Most people are smart enough to know what happens next. You get a "wellness check" at best if someone phones you in, which means a stressful police encounter. On the worse side, you get sectioned, Ativaned and released in 72 hours and after talking with a psych for a few minutes. You have to deal with the traumatic experience of being sectioned itself as well as the fall out of being unavailable for 72 hours which can mean getting fired for no-showing your job, dealing with child custody logistics, &c. Most lay people supporting a friend or family member are simply unequipped to handle the severity of a suicidal case without resorting to institutional intervention. The article's call to action (listening or handing off to specialists) doesn't do anything to disrupt the chain of events that's likely to happen after a suicidal disclosure. Instead, a comprehensive guide to the effect of "What to do if your friend wants to kill themselves" would go so much farther than the advice given.
- Spivak 3y ago
  I could rant about this for an eternity. Our mental health system is completely ass-backwards making people with serious problems unable to talk about them and actually get help before the moment you get 5150'd where your entire life is put into the hands of an overworked stranger and you hope the narrative you're able to craft for yourself is one where you get to leave. Fuck government systems that are marketed as helping people but being anywhere near them in any way whatsoever is bad.
elmerfud 3y ago
Of course by this same token most people thinking about suicide don't do it. I do find it a bit interesting they choose the 15-29 age range for their shocker sentence. While it being the 4th leading cause of death for that range sounds bad, you have frame it with overall death in that age range is very rare. When looking only at suicide worldwide at 50 and above the numbers go up drastically. As in from 30 to 50 the suicide rates is 4x and 50 to 70 again doubles. I'm a very big supporter of personal freedom, even an unpopular opinion of saying suicide for any adult should legal and available. I think it's a bad choice that shouldn't be done but I think it's an individual choice. This same view I would have on abortion, you shouldn't do it but you should choose. Thinking about the problem is this way means to prevent suicide we must stop thinking this is something that only groups we consider traditionally as marginalized are doing. When you look at pre-teens through 20's yes it's largely these traditionally marginalized groups of people it affects. Statistically though they are a small percentage of overall suicides. While we should strive to prevent all suicides we need to frame the problem correctly. The vast majority of suicides worldwide are not marginalized people they are traditionally mainstream individuals of society that are doing it. Not just by a small percentage more it is the vast majority of suicides are mainstream non-traditionally marginalized people. If society wants to prevent suicides we need to take a long hard look at why most seem to be mainstream people who should not be disaffected by society. Continuing to frame the problem as a young people problem or a marginalized people doesn't help reduce the suicide rate. All it does is provide headlines for people to wring their hands and weep over.
- LorenPechtel 3y ago
  And how many of those are due to untreatable illnesses? Or other problems that have no resolution? How many of them actually can be prevented and how many are people coming to the reasonable conclusion that their life is worse than death?
JohnFen 3y ago
A psychiatrist friend of mine once commented about suicidal people who tell others of their state vs one that doesn't. His summary is that the ones who tell others haven't yet really decided. They're still reaching out for help, for some other way. The ones who have really made the decision, who have given up all hope for an alternative course of action, are the ones who don't say anything. Because why would they? From their perspective, they have nothing to gain by doing so, and would cause a lot of additional trouble to themselves and their loved ones if they did.
- DanBC 3y ago
  How does he square this with the fact that most people who die by suicide have sought help within the past twelve months?
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    I didn't ask him, so I don't know. My guess is that he would say that they failed to find the help they were seeking and so they eventually made the decision for real.
aio2 3y ago
well no shit. do you think our system actually makes it inviting to ask for help
antifa 3y ago
As a society, we spend tons of effort on demanding people not commit suicide, but very little effort trying to make people not want to commit suicide.

24 points by headalgorithm 3y ago

whitemary 3y ago

It's a rational decision. Capitalism enforces para-social behavior and ostracizing the weak.

halJordan 3y ago
Capitalism that great bogeyman in the sky. I can only imagine this is what people felt during the Cold War when they had to deal with that one person who just always had to make it about communism. The more things change the more they stay the same.
- antifa 3y ago
  Despite the cold war ending in 1989, there's no shortage of people declaring random things are about communism.

kelseyfrog 3y ago

Why would they? Most people are smart enough to know what happens next. You get a "wellness check" at best if someone phones you in, which means a stressful police encounter. On the worse side, you get sectioned, Ativaned and released in 72 hours and after talking with a psych for a few minutes. You have to deal with the traumatic experience of being sectioned itself as well as the fall out of being unavailable for 72 hours which can mean getting fired for no-showing your job, dealing with child custody logistics, &c. Most lay people supporting a friend or family member are simply unequipped to handle the severity of a suicidal case without resorting to institutional intervention. The article's call to action (listening or handing off to specialists) doesn't do anything to disrupt the chain of events that's likely to happen after a suicidal disclosure. Instead, a comprehensive guide to the effect of "What to do if your friend wants to kill themselves" would go so much farther than the advice given.

Spivak 3y ago
I could rant about this for an eternity. Our mental health system is completely ass-backwards making people with serious problems unable to talk about them and actually get help before the moment you get 5150'd where your entire life is put into the hands of an overworked stranger and you hope the narrative you're able to craft for yourself is one where you get to leave. Fuck government systems that are marketed as helping people but being anywhere near them in any way whatsoever is bad.

elmerfud 3y ago

Of course by this same token most people thinking about suicide don't do it. I do find it a bit interesting they choose the 15-29 age range for their shocker sentence. While it being the 4th leading cause of death for that range sounds bad, you have frame it with overall death in that age range is very rare. When looking only at suicide worldwide at 50 and above the numbers go up drastically. As in from 30 to 50 the suicide rates is 4x and 50 to 70 again doubles. I'm a very big supporter of personal freedom, even an unpopular opinion of saying suicide for any adult should legal and available. I think it's a bad choice that shouldn't be done but I think it's an individual choice. This same view I would have on abortion, you shouldn't do it but you should choose. Thinking about the problem is this way means to prevent suicide we must stop thinking this is something that only groups we consider traditionally as marginalized are doing. When you look at pre-teens through 20's yes it's largely these traditionally marginalized groups of people it affects. Statistically though they are a small percentage of overall suicides. While we should strive to prevent all suicides we need to frame the problem correctly. The vast majority of suicides worldwide are not marginalized people they are traditionally mainstream individuals of society that are doing it. Not just by a small percentage more it is the vast majority of suicides are mainstream non-traditionally marginalized people. If society wants to prevent suicides we need to take a long hard look at why most seem to be mainstream people who should not be disaffected by society. Continuing to frame the problem as a young people problem or a marginalized people doesn't help reduce the suicide rate. All it does is provide headlines for people to wring their hands and weep over.

LorenPechtel 3y ago
And how many of those are due to untreatable illnesses? Or other problems that have no resolution? How many of them actually can be prevented and how many are people coming to the reasonable conclusion that their life is worse than death?

JohnFen 3y ago

A psychiatrist friend of mine once commented about suicidal people who tell others of their state vs one that doesn't. His summary is that the ones who tell others haven't yet really decided. They're still reaching out for help, for some other way. The ones who have really made the decision, who have given up all hope for an alternative course of action, are the ones who don't say anything. Because why would they? From their perspective, they have nothing to gain by doing so, and would cause a lot of additional trouble to themselves and their loved ones if they did.

DanBC 3y ago
How does he square this with the fact that most people who die by suicide have sought help within the past twelve months?
- JohnFen 3y ago
  I didn't ask him, so I don't know. My guess is that he would say that they failed to find the help they were seeking and so they eventually made the decision for real.

aio2 3y ago

well no shit. do you think our system actually makes it inviting to ask for help

antifa 3y ago

As a society, we spend tons of effort on demanding people not commit suicide, but very little effort trying to make people not want to commit suicide.