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I think Dawkins, like atheism itself, makes sense in a certain context. I haven't called myself an atheist in many, many years. It's unnecessary now. I live in
by dkarl 4y ago
I think Dawkins, like atheism itself, makes sense in a certain context.
I haven't called myself an atheist in many, many years. It's unnecessary now. I live in a place and a social context where it doesn't matter. But I grew up in a place where everybody took a shared belief in God for granted. God, if you believe in God the way most Christians do, is a concept that touches everything. Everything you do, all the choices you make, derive ultimately from your conception of yourself as a child of a benevolent God, living in a universe that He created for us, for purposes that we can't fully understand, but in which we are provided with a certain amount of guidance about his wishes for how we should behave towards each other and towards Him. Naturally this comes up in conversation sometimes. It's just too big and too all-encompassing not to. Any conversation about how people should and shouldn't behave -- which is a huge percentage of human conversation, since it include politics, gossip, and personal dilemmas -- God is right there under the surface, and can come up explicitly at any time.
When God comes up, you have a couple of choices:
1. Use the same language as everybody else, internally translating what other people say into concepts that you find meaningful and compelling, and translating what you want to say into Christian language, even when such translations are inaccurate. Or,
2. Channel your inner Christian, and play a Christian role in the conversation. (Definitely an option for folks like me who were Christian when they were younger.) Or,
3. Speak the way you think, and be prepared to be misunderstood, met with horror, judged, and/or forced to explain yourself.
Choosing option 3 becomes exhausting over time, and calling yourself an "atheist" is one way to make it a little bit less exhausting.
People wonder why "atheists" are constantly refuting all of the naive, amateur-hour proofs of the existence of God and not grappling with more philosophically sophisticated ways of conceiving of God. Why so much straw-manning, why so much punching down? In my opinion, it boils down to this: if you are talking to someone who believes in a philosophically sophisticated concept of God, then you probably aren't being forced to play the role of "atheist" because you aren't being faced with active astonishment, perplexity, and/or hostility about your lack of belief. I have virtually never needed to be an "atheist" in the last fifteen years, because I live in a nice blue urban bubble where everybody understands that their concept of God is not a universal that they can assume as common ground with everyone they meet. When someone wants to talk to you about what they believe, they aren't filled with disbelief, disgust, or fear, and they aren't looking to come to a successful resolution of your spiritual sickness by the end of the conversation.
Because my need (and, I suspect, many other people's need) for atheism was driven by the context of being surrounded by people who shared a religious belief and found it baffling, horrifying, and/or disgusting that I didn't share it as well, I never needed atheism to be sophisticated or subtle. I never needed it to be convincing for educated people. I only needed it to give me a voice and a label for myself in those situations. I found it useful then, and even though I've been able to put myself in a better situation where I can leave it behind me, I understand why other people still need it.
- jll29 4y agoThe people you were with probably were unused to outsiders and insecure how to deal with your "alien" (to them) views. They should have behaved welcoming and inclusive. But as we all know, there's a lot between "should" and "is" in this world... Because there are atheists, agnostics, Christians, Muslims and those of other religions, we need to find a way to be nice to each other, and perhaps a smallest common denominator of moral values (a sort of "moral POSIX standard"). Your three options are interesting. There was a linguistic study among Algerian immigrants to France, provided in Arabic and in French (same questions), so study the influence of language/culture on the answers. The same people were asked about love, for example, and as you would expect those answering in French would "channel" (to use your word) idioms and responses associated with love in a French context (language of love, Paris as the city of love, romantic love etc.). In contrast, responses in Arabic channeled concepts of moral chastity. Need to find that study (I believe it was a chapter in a book).
- dkarl 4y agoI was not an outsider. I was born and raised there. You're right that anything they weren't comfortable with was thought of as outside pollution, though.
- jll29 4y agoSorry, I meant "outlier" with respect to your views rather than "outsider". There are many "insiders" that intellectually belong "outside" but that shy away from the consequences of expressing one's views, and what would happen after such a disclosure. Even well-meaning groups like religious sects that want to "save" can have devastating effects on individuals. Recently, a shooter killed several members of the Jehovah's witnesses at a meeting, probably because he was an ex-member, and they are known to cut all social/communications ties with leavers. Needless to say, if people are not mentally stable, being isolated by force can lead to disaster. But usually, the most strongly worded views come from insecure people who are not that knowledgeable, whereas people who have deeply studied and compared are more gracious and see connections where others would like to create more divisions.