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> that any post about Bob Lee’s death that somehow editorializes it or positions it in a way that is likely to lead to political debates is against the site gui

by bnralt 4y ago

> that any post about Bob Lee’s death that somehow editorializes it or positions it in a way that is likely to lead to political debates is against the site guidelines and thus were removed appropriately. A lot of discussions on HN lead to discussions of government policies (both U.S. and foreign) when there's a connection to the story, including saying that certain policies lead to the death of individuals. There's only a subset that gets mass flagged. If he was shot to death by police at a protest, killed by a U.S. military strike in another country, died as a result of a mass Covid surge, stories mentioning the reason for his death wouldn't be mass flagged. People wouldn't be forbidden from mentioning the causes of death on the only one that isn't, and it wouldn't be dismissed as "political flamebait." If Hacker News decides that discussion about government policies is off limits, that's fine. It might even make discussions better. But allowing it in some situations and having it "removed appropriately" in others is only reinforcing bias. I think characterizing that as abuse is appropriate. Edit: If you want to see an example, look at the Hacker News discussion about the death of Aaron Swartz. The cause of death isn't hidden, and there's a lot of criticism of the government, none of which is getting dismissed as editorializing or political flamebait[1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5046845 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5046845

haswell 4y ago
I think we're discussing different things. I agree that plenty of discussion tends to touch on those subjects, and in the 2020s, it seems increasingly difficult to separate them from many aspects of our lives. But those discussions are in a very literal sense exceptions to the rules based on their relevance to the tech community. And mentioning the cause of death was not forbidden. The initial post about Bob Lee was split off into two, so one could remain focused on remembering Bob for who he was [0], and the other could explore the surrounding circumstances [1]. With that said, the site guidelines are pretty clear: > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon ... If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity. So this will often boil down to the framing. If the title is tinged with political implications, that's quite a bit different than mentioning the cause of death. The circumstances surrounding Bob Lee's death are relevant to quite a few readers here, and so there was a discussion about it. But a default assessment of any given submission if weighed against the guidelines should assume that such content is off-topic, unless there's a reason to believe otherwise (as there was in this and cases like the one you cited that are close to the tech community). Even with that separation, there was quite a bit of discussion that was clearly far outside of the guidelines in that thread. - [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35457341 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35457341 - [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899

by bnralt 4y ago

haswell 4y ago

I think we're discussing different things. I agree that plenty of discussion tends to touch on those subjects, and in the 2020s, it seems increasingly difficult to separate them from many aspects of our lives. But those discussions are in a very literal sense exceptions to the rules based on their relevance to the tech community. And mentioning the cause of death was not forbidden. The initial post about Bob Lee was split off into two, so one could remain focused on remembering Bob for who he was [0], and the other could explore the surrounding circumstances [1]. With that said, the site guidelines are pretty clear: > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon ... If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity. So this will often boil down to the framing. If the title is tinged with political implications, that's quite a bit different than mentioning the cause of death. The circumstances surrounding Bob Lee's death are relevant to quite a few readers here, and so there was a discussion about it. But a default assessment of any given submission if weighed against the guidelines should assume that such content is off-topic, unless there's a reason to believe otherwise (as there was in this and cases like the one you cited that are close to the tech community). Even with that separation, there was quite a bit of discussion that was clearly far outside of the guidelines in that thread. - [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35457341 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35457341 - [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899