4 ms·

Dear manufacturers of driverless cars: let's see how they do in Boston. We'll be here anytime you're feeling brave.

igetspam 4y ago
As a human driver who has navigated both Boston and SF, they're both equally terrible. Once you're in the middle of downtown for either city, you should abandon your car, your plans and hope. Just walk.
- rippercushions 4y ago
  The weather in Boston is considerably more challenging than SF though.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    For all its reputation, I'm not sure Boston is clearly a lot harder to drive in generally than a lot of San Francisco is--given Boston weather for maybe 8 months out of the year. However, after a big snowstorm (admittedly not much this year) it's a whole other game. And while it's easy to say just don't use self-driving if there's a snowstorm or if lanes are partially blocked by snow, that's not ultimately a driving system that can be depended on. And I guarantee people who maybe only drive a few dozen times a year in the worst conditions will be an absolute menace on the roads. (And "just don't drive then" isn't an option for a lot of people in a lot of circumstances.)
  - clsec 4y ago
    Well, as an example, last year the lights at the intersection outside my apartment went out during a heavy rain storm. I also tend to have a lot of driverless cars in my neighborhood. I watched how cars were dealing with the blacked out intersection. I saw two different Waymo cars stop at the intersection as CA law requires. Then I saw a Cruise car approach the intersection. As it did it slowed a little but then seemed to speed up as it blew through the intersection. I could only imagine the nightmare during a bad nor'easter!
  - ElfinTrousers 4y ago
    Though to be fair that San Francisco fog is famous for a reason too. I'm sure that doesn't help.
  - opportune 4y ago
    I don’t think any self driving cars have been trained for snow yet, but it does rain (sometimes pretty hard) in SF, and because we have wet/dry seasons rains are more hazardous in some cases due to months of oils all being disrupted at once. It can also be quite windy in SF, it’s common for gusts to reach >20mph on random sunny days, especially this time of year. So aside from snow and ice( big exceptions, for sure) I think they can handle Boston weather.
- james_pm 4y ago
  That's basically what these cars do in SF, apparently. They get themselves into a situation with no way to figure out a way forward and they shut down.
world2vec 4y ago
Let's step it up, let's see how it fares in a city from medieval times, like Coimbra (Portugal) or Avignon (France).
- quonn 4y ago
  Let‘s see how it fares in Marrakesh or Delhi.
  - world2vec 4y ago
    That's super-hard mode!
- jutrewag 4y ago
  When I was on vacation there earlier this year, I drove right into the middle of the old walled city in Avignon until I noticed people giving me wired looks and a confused cop asked me how I got in there.
  - scottLobster 4y ago
    Out of curiosity I looked up Avignon on google maps, and sure the roads are skinny as hell but they exist and there plenty of cars. The whole place is viewable on Google Street View, presumably taken from a car. Maybe you were just in a restricted area? Cars in Avignon Old Walled City: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9491327,4.8100308,3a,75y,99.62h,68.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqNNSm_ak2JQAuDpz1Gd14w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9491327,4.8100308,3a,75y,99.... https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9493463,4.8114883,3a,75y,328.87h,61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFEiGiwxuFZ4bd8tvxbyG6g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9493463,4.8114883,3a,75y,328... https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9482465,4.8084919,3a,75y,3.43h,80.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGSMkVwLW2-sIazhJDIBkAw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9482465,4.8084919,3a,75y,3.4... https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9476804,4.8115635,3a,75y,126.13h,81.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_n57h5PqugLQFrMswwTvOw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9476804,4.8115635,3a,75y,126...
    - 4y ago
blamazon 4y ago
Just geofence it to the land that was water before about the 1800s and it'll work it fine ;)
gwbas1c 4y ago
Ever since I got a GPS, I don't mind driving in Boston.
- ghaff 4y ago
  I won't say I don't mind. But, for the relatively few occasions I drive into Boston proper, it's certainly an improvement over balancing a map in your lap and trying to figure out where you are and where you're going. It can still be tricky and it's fairly to miss turns but much easier.
opportune 4y ago
I live in SF, I’ve been seeing driverless cars in the Bay Area for 4 years, and recently I’ve started riding in them commercially because I’m opted into their public testing programs/commercial riding. I don’t think they’ll have much trouble in Boston. The current Cruise service area includes a lot of steep hills, narrow roads with parking/pedestrians on each side, and some winding streets. Driverless cars are typically pretty cautious around hazards like this, sometimes a bit too much (like driving up to a stop sign too slowly), but matching what I would want a “safe driver” to do. I took a Cruise in the rain a few days ago and the rain didn’t seem to cause any problems at all. Even though you can only take Cruise at night, between 9 and 12 pm there have still been plenty of situations where it had to deal with pedestrians walking across middle of streets, opening and closing doors of cars parked on the street, cars stopping in the middle of the road to unload pedestrians, etc. and it’s actually handled all of them well. When the cars get stuck, I am pretty sure it’s because they are in “mapping mode”. I think it’s weird and likely unscaleable for an entire service area to need to be mapped before opened commercially, but once the cars are actually “working” they don’t get stuck much. Anyway, I think the only real problem with Boston would be snow and ice (on the ground, I think the rains and fog in SF are close enough that cars could handle snow and ice in the air).As far as I know, no self driving car company has tested much under snowy/icy conditions.
- pound 4y ago
  it's 10PM - 5:30AM to be precise

As a human driver who has navigated both Boston and SF, they're both equally terrible. Once you're in the middle of downtown for either city, you should abandon your car, your plans and hope. Just walk.

rippercushions 4y ago
The weather in Boston is considerably more challenging than SF though.
- ghaff 4y ago
  For all its reputation, I'm not sure Boston is clearly a lot harder to drive in generally than a lot of San Francisco is--given Boston weather for maybe 8 months out of the year. However, after a big snowstorm (admittedly not much this year) it's a whole other game. And while it's easy to say just don't use self-driving if there's a snowstorm or if lanes are partially blocked by snow, that's not ultimately a driving system that can be depended on. And I guarantee people who maybe only drive a few dozen times a year in the worst conditions will be an absolute menace on the roads. (And "just don't drive then" isn't an option for a lot of people in a lot of circumstances.)
- clsec 4y ago
  Well, as an example, last year the lights at the intersection outside my apartment went out during a heavy rain storm. I also tend to have a lot of driverless cars in my neighborhood. I watched how cars were dealing with the blacked out intersection. I saw two different Waymo cars stop at the intersection as CA law requires. Then I saw a Cruise car approach the intersection. As it did it slowed a little but then seemed to speed up as it blew through the intersection. I could only imagine the nightmare during a bad nor'easter!
- ElfinTrousers 4y ago
  Though to be fair that San Francisco fog is famous for a reason too. I'm sure that doesn't help.
- opportune 4y ago
  I don’t think any self driving cars have been trained for snow yet, but it does rain (sometimes pretty hard) in SF, and because we have wet/dry seasons rains are more hazardous in some cases due to months of oils all being disrupted at once. It can also be quite windy in SF, it’s common for gusts to reach >20mph on random sunny days, especially this time of year. So aside from snow and ice( big exceptions, for sure) I think they can handle Boston weather.
james_pm 4y ago
That's basically what these cars do in SF, apparently. They get themselves into a situation with no way to figure out a way forward and they shut down.

world2vec 4y ago

Let's step it up, let's see how it fares in a city from medieval times, like Coimbra (Portugal) or Avignon (France).

quonn 4y ago
Let‘s see how it fares in Marrakesh or Delhi.
- world2vec 4y ago
  That's super-hard mode!
jutrewag 4y ago
When I was on vacation there earlier this year, I drove right into the middle of the old walled city in Avignon until I noticed people giving me wired looks and a confused cop asked me how I got in there.
- scottLobster 4y ago
  Out of curiosity I looked up Avignon on google maps, and sure the roads are skinny as hell but they exist and there plenty of cars. The whole place is viewable on Google Street View, presumably taken from a car. Maybe you were just in a restricted area? Cars in Avignon Old Walled City: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9491327,4.8100308,3a,75y,99.62h,68.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqNNSm_ak2JQAuDpz1Gd14w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9491327,4.8100308,3a,75y,99.... https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9493463,4.8114883,3a,75y,328.87h,61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFEiGiwxuFZ4bd8tvxbyG6g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9493463,4.8114883,3a,75y,328... https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9482465,4.8084919,3a,75y,3.43h,80.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGSMkVwLW2-sIazhJDIBkAw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9482465,4.8084919,3a,75y,3.4... https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9476804,4.8115635,3a,75y,126.13h,81.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_n57h5PqugLQFrMswwTvOw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9476804,4.8115635,3a,75y,126...
  - 4y ago

blamazon 4y ago

Just geofence it to the land that was water before about the 1800s and it'll work it fine ;)

gwbas1c 4y ago

Ever since I got a GPS, I don't mind driving in Boston.

ghaff 4y ago
I won't say I don't mind. But, for the relatively few occasions I drive into Boston proper, it's certainly an improvement over balancing a map in your lap and trying to figure out where you are and where you're going. It can still be tricky and it's fairly to miss turns but much easier.

opportune 4y ago

I live in SF, I’ve been seeing driverless cars in the Bay Area for 4 years, and recently I’ve started riding in them commercially because I’m opted into their public testing programs/commercial riding. I don’t think they’ll have much trouble in Boston. The current Cruise service area includes a lot of steep hills, narrow roads with parking/pedestrians on each side, and some winding streets. Driverless cars are typically pretty cautious around hazards like this, sometimes a bit too much (like driving up to a stop sign too slowly), but matching what I would want a “safe driver” to do. I took a Cruise in the rain a few days ago and the rain didn’t seem to cause any problems at all. Even though you can only take Cruise at night, between 9 and 12 pm there have still been plenty of situations where it had to deal with pedestrians walking across middle of streets, opening and closing doors of cars parked on the street, cars stopping in the middle of the road to unload pedestrians, etc. and it’s actually handled all of them well. When the cars get stuck, I am pretty sure it’s because they are in “mapping mode”. I think it’s weird and likely unscaleable for an entire service area to need to be mapped before opened commercially, but once the cars are actually “working” they don’t get stuck much. Anyway, I think the only real problem with Boston would be snow and ice (on the ground, I think the rains and fog in SF are close enough that cars could handle snow and ice in the air).As far as I know, no self driving car company has tested much under snowy/icy conditions.

pound 4y ago
it's 10PM - 5:30AM to be precise