5 ms·

Side note: Dmitry (creator of RePalm) is a treasure and his impact on the Palm community cannot be understated. He has a world-class depth of knowledge of the i

by ckz 3y ago

Side note: Dmitry (creator of RePalm) is a treasure and his impact on the Palm community cannot be understated. He has a world-class depth of knowledge of the inner workings of these things and is one of the key players in extending PalmOS device capabilities today (patching ROMs, new hardware, etc.). He also contributes regularly to apps the community is developing, teaching us hobby devs new tricks. :) As someone who still uses PDAs regularly, I can't express enough gratitude.

walterbell 3y ago
Is there a recommended Palm device for modern use? What software do you use on Linux/Mac/Windows to sync the PDA?
- Cosi1125 3y ago
  http://www.jpilot.org/ http://www.jpilot.org/
- throwawayapples 3y ago
  take your pick on Ebay but jPilot is still maintained and is a clone of the original Palm Pilot desktop. be sure to sign up for the mailing list.
- ckz 3y ago
  Palm Desktop still works fine today on modern Windows, just have to grab USB drivers: https://palmdb.net/help/hotsync-setup https://palmdb.net/help/hotsync-setup On Linux there's pilot-link (command line) or J-Pilot (GUI on top of that). I don't love the UI for J-Pilot, admittedly, which feels a little rougher than Palm Desktop. A Windows VM is also a common approach. For devices, there's a dividing line between 68k and ARM. A 68k will feel more "classic" and will often get you things like AAA batteries and LCD grayscale screens with a bit of an e-ink vibe. Some models like Handsprings are expandable with more "modern" (for 2001) capabilities like extra storage, a camera, or GPS. Some Palm/Sony devices have SD slots too. Most devices of this age involve feature tradeoffs, however. You'll often find color, or AAA, or 16MB of RAM, but not all 3. For a 68k daily driver, you probably want something running OS3.5 or OS4 to avoid the limitations of the super early versions. ARM models (Tungstens, various Cliés, Treos, etc.) close the gap with smartphones much more--and some literally were. Color, higher resolutions, lithium, media support, SD, bluetooth, wifi, etc. These run OS5+ and having ARM under the hood unlocks an additional class of apps the older ones can't run. A reminder also to definitely tune one's expectations to the era. Truly modern connectivity requires fiddling and having no-to-rudimentary HTTPS support can make these feel more disconnected today than they originally were. Still, you might also be surprised at how many daily tasks today were achievable 20 years ago in a way that's generally familiar to us now.
  - walterbell 3y ago
    Thanks for the detailed guidance!
tgmatt 3y ago
Out of interest, and a genuine question, why do you use PDAs when smartphones exist? Surely they do everything the PDAs did but better?
- michaelhoffman 3y ago
  I don't use non-smartphone PDAs anymore, but I really miss: 1. Their ability to do absolutely everything offline. No need to worry that I won't be able to access something because somewhere without data service 2. The ability to have all the PDA features at my fingertips without being hooked up to the world's biggest attention-killing distraction network.
  - blisterpeanuts 3y ago
    Also the “search entire device” feature. It used to be so easy to find something across contacts, calendar, and memos.
  - MikusR 3y ago
    you just described an ordinary smartphone with wifi/data turned off.
    - michaelhoffman 3y ago
      I wish that were true, but unfortunately some apps do not seem to be designed well in the case of data being turned off.
  - mcguire 3y ago
    3. For the "big 4" applications at least, the Palm was significantly faster and significantly more usable than anything I've seen on smartphones.
- ckz 3y ago
  A totally valid question! I did adopt the smartphone for many, many years. My father had a gen-1 iPhone which captured my imagination. At the same time, I've also never really let them run my life. I've habitually always maintained the old (Apple?) hub-and-spoke model where the PC is the core and everything else is a mobile extension of it. I do own some, but they don't get used for much (browser-on-the-go, mostly). Smartphones are definitely better all-rounders, but what I've come to adopt in recent years is a hobby of finding whatever tech/concept seems "best" to me (from any period in time) and then using that. Sometimes that means hardware from 1920, sometimes from today (e.g. I have a current-gen GPU to join the AI arms race). Sometimes that means a modern evolution of the concept without losing the spirit. Easy examples: * iPod -> Music player w/ FLAC + 1TB SD * Gameboy -> Analogue Pocket (or sometimes original hardware) * A modern standalone camera, etc. It's sort of like living in the dream version of 2002 where tech stayed hopeful and fun (not sure if that's good or bad). Definitely brought me the most joy in tech I've had in years. PDAs (and a _lot_ of tech from <2010) have the advantage of still being built entirely to serve the user. For my needs, I basically view it as day-planner or complement to a notepad and don't expect it to be a smartphone. My opinion is that these devices basically "solved" the digital calendar by ~1999 and that almost every calendar feature since (except maybe sharing) usually serves some other business need in addition to the user, or is just clunkier. A PDA just wants to take good notes, manage the day's work, and be a simple extension of your mind. Most modern tasks (that don't require a network connection to be useful) have apps that still exist and don't spy on you: Food journals, encrypted notes, flashcards, project management, ebooks, cached news, Wordle, period trackers... So, if your life today doesn't _depend_ on a specific vision of modernity, you don't miss out on much of it while benefiting from some forgotten UX benefits: Offline-first, great UI, week-long batteries (AAA if so inclined), Graffiti input, etc. :)
ttctciyf 3y ago
> cannot be understated Seeing this a lot recently[1]. I guess you mean the opposite of what this implies ("his impact is less than you could state"), but I'm curious how this has ended up being almost as commonly used as the "correct" form[2]. Is it an in-joke or reference I'm not getting? 1: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22cannot+be+understated%22+site%3Anews.ycombinator.com https://www.google.com/search?q=%22cannot+be+understated%22+... 2: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22cannot+be+overstated%22+site%3Anews.ycombinator.com https://www.google.com/search?q=%22cannot+be+overstated%22+s...
- ckz 3y ago
  Oof, and it's too late for me to go back and fix it (unless Dang would be so kind, for posterity). Definitely meant the positive version and I have no idea how I transposed those two! Apologies for contributing to the mess and appreciate you catching it. :)
  - ttctciyf 3y ago
    Oh, well your meaning is obvious from context, didn't mean to nitpick you but was just curious about the trend I seem to be observing, so apologies back :)
- lampiaio 3y ago
  I parsed "cannot be understated" as "must not be understated", or "we cannot allow it to stay understated". I took it to mean a call to action, "this cannot be x!".
- JenrHywy 3y ago
  I imagine it's much like "I could care less" - the phrase is the literal opposite of its proper form "I couldn't care less" but both have evolved to be used synonymously.

by ckz 3y ago

walterbell 3y ago

Is there a recommended Palm device for modern use? What software do you use on Linux/Mac/Windows to sync the PDA?

Cosi1125 3y ago
http://www.jpilot.org/ http://www.jpilot.org/
throwawayapples 3y ago
take your pick on Ebay but jPilot is still maintained and is a clone of the original Palm Pilot desktop. be sure to sign up for the mailing list.
ckz 3y ago
Palm Desktop still works fine today on modern Windows, just have to grab USB drivers: https://palmdb.net/help/hotsync-setup https://palmdb.net/help/hotsync-setup On Linux there's pilot-link (command line) or J-Pilot (GUI on top of that). I don't love the UI for J-Pilot, admittedly, which feels a little rougher than Palm Desktop. A Windows VM is also a common approach. For devices, there's a dividing line between 68k and ARM. A 68k will feel more "classic" and will often get you things like AAA batteries and LCD grayscale screens with a bit of an e-ink vibe. Some models like Handsprings are expandable with more "modern" (for 2001) capabilities like extra storage, a camera, or GPS. Some Palm/Sony devices have SD slots too. Most devices of this age involve feature tradeoffs, however. You'll often find color, or AAA, or 16MB of RAM, but not all 3. For a 68k daily driver, you probably want something running OS3.5 or OS4 to avoid the limitations of the super early versions. ARM models (Tungstens, various Cliés, Treos, etc.) close the gap with smartphones much more--and some literally were. Color, higher resolutions, lithium, media support, SD, bluetooth, wifi, etc. These run OS5+ and having ARM under the hood unlocks an additional class of apps the older ones can't run. A reminder also to definitely tune one's expectations to the era. Truly modern connectivity requires fiddling and having no-to-rudimentary HTTPS support can make these feel more disconnected today than they originally were. Still, you might also be surprised at how many daily tasks today were achievable 20 years ago in a way that's generally familiar to us now.
- walterbell 3y ago
  Thanks for the detailed guidance!

tgmatt 3y ago

Out of interest, and a genuine question, why do you use PDAs when smartphones exist? Surely they do everything the PDAs did but better?

michaelhoffman 3y ago
I don't use non-smartphone PDAs anymore, but I really miss: 1. Their ability to do absolutely everything offline. No need to worry that I won't be able to access something because somewhere without data service 2. The ability to have all the PDA features at my fingertips without being hooked up to the world's biggest attention-killing distraction network.
- blisterpeanuts 3y ago
  Also the “search entire device” feature. It used to be so easy to find something across contacts, calendar, and memos.
- MikusR 3y ago
  you just described an ordinary smartphone with wifi/data turned off.
  - michaelhoffman 3y ago
    I wish that were true, but unfortunately some apps do not seem to be designed well in the case of data being turned off.
- mcguire 3y ago
  3. For the "big 4" applications at least, the Palm was significantly faster and significantly more usable than anything I've seen on smartphones.
ckz 3y ago
A totally valid question! I did adopt the smartphone for many, many years. My father had a gen-1 iPhone which captured my imagination. At the same time, I've also never really let them run my life. I've habitually always maintained the old (Apple?) hub-and-spoke model where the PC is the core and everything else is a mobile extension of it. I do own some, but they don't get used for much (browser-on-the-go, mostly). Smartphones are definitely better all-rounders, but what I've come to adopt in recent years is a hobby of finding whatever tech/concept seems "best" to me (from any period in time) and then using that. Sometimes that means hardware from 1920, sometimes from today (e.g. I have a current-gen GPU to join the AI arms race). Sometimes that means a modern evolution of the concept without losing the spirit. Easy examples: * iPod -> Music player w/ FLAC + 1TB SD * Gameboy -> Analogue Pocket (or sometimes original hardware) * A modern standalone camera, etc. It's sort of like living in the dream version of 2002 where tech stayed hopeful and fun (not sure if that's good or bad). Definitely brought me the most joy in tech I've had in years. PDAs (and a _lot_ of tech from <2010) have the advantage of still being built entirely to serve the user. For my needs, I basically view it as day-planner or complement to a notepad and don't expect it to be a smartphone. My opinion is that these devices basically "solved" the digital calendar by ~1999 and that almost every calendar feature since (except maybe sharing) usually serves some other business need in addition to the user, or is just clunkier. A PDA just wants to take good notes, manage the day's work, and be a simple extension of your mind. Most modern tasks (that don't require a network connection to be useful) have apps that still exist and don't spy on you: Food journals, encrypted notes, flashcards, project management, ebooks, cached news, Wordle, period trackers... So, if your life today doesn't _depend_ on a specific vision of modernity, you don't miss out on much of it while benefiting from some forgotten UX benefits: Offline-first, great UI, week-long batteries (AAA if so inclined), Graffiti input, etc. :)

ttctciyf 3y ago

> cannot be understated Seeing this a lot recently[1]. I guess you mean the opposite of what this implies ("his impact is less than you could state"), but I'm curious how this has ended up being almost as commonly used as the "correct" form[2]. Is it an in-joke or reference I'm not getting? 1: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22cannot+be+understated%22+site%3Anews.ycombinator.com https://www.google.com/search?q=%22cannot+be+understated%22+... 2: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22cannot+be+overstated%22+site%3Anews.ycombinator.com https://www.google.com/search?q=%22cannot+be+overstated%22+s...

ckz 3y ago
Oof, and it's too late for me to go back and fix it (unless Dang would be so kind, for posterity). Definitely meant the positive version and I have no idea how I transposed those two! Apologies for contributing to the mess and appreciate you catching it. :)
- ttctciyf 3y ago
  Oh, well your meaning is obvious from context, didn't mean to nitpick you but was just curious about the trend I seem to be observing, so apologies back :)
lampiaio 3y ago
I parsed "cannot be understated" as "must not be understated", or "we cannot allow it to stay understated". I took it to mean a call to action, "this cannot be x!".
JenrHywy 3y ago
I imagine it's much like "I could care less" - the phrase is the literal opposite of its proper form "I couldn't care less" but both have evolved to be used synonymously.