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It amazes me to no end that some people would feed private conversations and other sensitive data into an experimental chat bot. Don’t these people not know tha

It amazes me to no end that some people would feed private conversations and other sensitive data into an experimental chat bot. Don’t these people not know that ChatGPT it not a mature technology, that does not reliably isolate sessions and may even permanently ingest user data for training purposes? GPT and other LLMs are currently integrated into countless products and hobbyist projects. Expect an avalanche of lawsuits on the grounds of LLMs being structurally incompatible with notorious privacy laws like the GDPR. For instance, how would they implement the GDPR’s “right to be forgotten”? Untrain the model?

elif 4y ago
for commercial snoops you have very strong legal protections over your data if you seek to enforce it legally. for government snoops you don't have any privacy anyway.
avereveard 4y ago
on one hand yes there is a real threat of these company misusing personal data, espèecially if you use the public side of the API (i.e. not the one from within azure, which has a separate set of privacy guarantees as far as I can understand) on the other hand this is a guardrail like the many others that GPT already has, if I search my name I get a 'not notable enough' answer already
weikju 4y ago
As my friends would say "all my data is out there already, so it doesn't matter anymore"... this is what we're dealing with here.
Cyphase 4y ago
(I may have misunderstood your comment to some extent, but I'm going to send this reply anyway even if just to clarify for anyone else who might misunderstand.) --- I agree with "be careful what you send to the chat bot", but let's clarify some things in case you or someone else reading your comment is misunderstanding. LLMs aren't immature AI brains that "may even permanently ingest user data for training purposes". They're just models, which are represented by an architecture described in readable source code, and weights derived from training. There is a very clear delineation between inference and training. Models are static when being used for inference. You don't need to "untrain" the model after you ask it something; you never trained it in the first place. Running inference does not change the trained weights. If you're talking about OpenAI specifically saving ChatGPT data for later training purposes, they absolutely are doing that; they aren't hiding it. But that's a purposeful "let's take this data and use it for training", not "oh no, our immature tech accidentally ingested prompt data, how do we untrain it"?
- semiquaver 4y ago
  from the “reliably isolate sessions” reference I have to assume they are referring to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35291112 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35291112
  - Cyphase 4y ago
    I figured the same; I didn't address that point.
- fl7305 4y ago
  > Running inference does not change the trained weights. That's true today. I don't know how many days (or hours) away we are from GPT-4 running a LoRA-pass to update its weights after each round though?
  - Cyphase 4y ago
    That would be an explicit decision by OpenAI, not a result of immature tech.
    - fl7305 4y ago
      Sure. But my point was that it is not an inherent feature in LLMs that they are frozen in time. Fine-tuning the entire model is very expensive. But fine-tuning a tiny parallell piece using LoRA is cheap both in CPU cycles and storage. OpenAI could already have implemented an auto-update feature without telling us. In the future, I can see them selling a premium feature where you have your own LoRA-addon that gets constantly trained on your interactions with it, so you get your own personalized GPT-4.
- alach11 4y ago
  > If you're talking about OpenAI specifically saving ChatGPT data for later training purposes, they absolutely are doing that They claim they're not retaining data through the API.
hhh 4y ago
People continue to push this, without reading the privacy statements regarding API use. https://openai.com/policies/api-data-usage-policies https://openai.com/policies/api-data-usage-policies https://openai.com/blog/introducing-chatgpt-and-whisper-apis https://openai.com/blog/introducing-chatgpt-and-whisper-apis
- tyingq 4y ago
  "Note that this data policy does not apply to OpenAI's Non-API consumer services like ChatGPT or DALL·E Labs. You can learn more about these policies in our data usage for consumer services FAQ." This particular project is API based, so the above doesn't apply, but I have seen several projects that scrape via ChatGPT, where your data is used: "Does OpenAI train on my content to improve model performance? For non-API consumer products like ChatGPT and DALL-E, we may use content such as prompts, responses, uploaded images, and generated images to improve our services."[1] [1] https://help.openai.com/en/articles/7039943-data-usage-for-consumer-services-faq https://help.openai.com/en/articles/7039943-data-usage-for-c...
- drowsspa 4y ago
  Even if you accept their pinky promise, won't people seeing others people's conversations just a few weeks ago?
  - dgellow 4y ago
    Only discussion titles (some payment information also leaked though).
  - hhh 4y ago
    This is unrelated to API use.
dgellow 4y ago
OpenAI says they aren’t training on chat GPT conversations. Up to you to see if you believe them or not. They also said having a 30 days data retention policy, that is compatible with GDPR. https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/01/addressing-criticism-openai-will-no-longer-use-customer-data-to-train-its-models-by-default/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/01/addressing-criticism-opena...

elif 4y ago

for commercial snoops you have very strong legal protections over your data if you seek to enforce it legally. for government snoops you don't have any privacy anyway.

avereveard 4y ago

on one hand yes there is a real threat of these company misusing personal data, espèecially if you use the public side of the API (i.e. not the one from within azure, which has a separate set of privacy guarantees as far as I can understand) on the other hand this is a guardrail like the many others that GPT already has, if I search my name I get a 'not notable enough' answer already

weikju 4y ago

As my friends would say "all my data is out there already, so it doesn't matter anymore"... this is what we're dealing with here.

Cyphase 4y ago

(I may have misunderstood your comment to some extent, but I'm going to send this reply anyway even if just to clarify for anyone else who might misunderstand.) --- I agree with "be careful what you send to the chat bot", but let's clarify some things in case you or someone else reading your comment is misunderstanding. LLMs aren't immature AI brains that "may even permanently ingest user data for training purposes". They're just models, which are represented by an architecture described in readable source code, and weights derived from training. There is a very clear delineation between inference and training. Models are static when being used for inference. You don't need to "untrain" the model after you ask it something; you never trained it in the first place. Running inference does not change the trained weights. If you're talking about OpenAI specifically saving ChatGPT data for later training purposes, they absolutely are doing that; they aren't hiding it. But that's a purposeful "let's take this data and use it for training", not "oh no, our immature tech accidentally ingested prompt data, how do we untrain it"?

semiquaver 4y ago
from the “reliably isolate sessions” reference I have to assume they are referring to this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35291112 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35291112
- Cyphase 4y ago
  I figured the same; I didn't address that point.
fl7305 4y ago
> Running inference does not change the trained weights. That's true today. I don't know how many days (or hours) away we are from GPT-4 running a LoRA-pass to update its weights after each round though?
- Cyphase 4y ago
  That would be an explicit decision by OpenAI, not a result of immature tech.
  - fl7305 4y ago
    Sure. But my point was that it is not an inherent feature in LLMs that they are frozen in time. Fine-tuning the entire model is very expensive. But fine-tuning a tiny parallell piece using LoRA is cheap both in CPU cycles and storage. OpenAI could already have implemented an auto-update feature without telling us. In the future, I can see them selling a premium feature where you have your own LoRA-addon that gets constantly trained on your interactions with it, so you get your own personalized GPT-4.
alach11 4y ago
> If you're talking about OpenAI specifically saving ChatGPT data for later training purposes, they absolutely are doing that They claim they're not retaining data through the API.

hhh 4y ago

People continue to push this, without reading the privacy statements regarding API use. https://openai.com/policies/api-data-usage-policies https://openai.com/policies/api-data-usage-policies https://openai.com/blog/introducing-chatgpt-and-whisper-apis https://openai.com/blog/introducing-chatgpt-and-whisper-apis

tyingq 4y ago
"Note that this data policy does not apply to OpenAI's Non-API consumer services like ChatGPT or DALL·E Labs. You can learn more about these policies in our data usage for consumer services FAQ." This particular project is API based, so the above doesn't apply, but I have seen several projects that scrape via ChatGPT, where your data is used: "Does OpenAI train on my content to improve model performance? For non-API consumer products like ChatGPT and DALL-E, we may use content such as prompts, responses, uploaded images, and generated images to improve our services."[1] [1] https://help.openai.com/en/articles/7039943-data-usage-for-consumer-services-faq https://help.openai.com/en/articles/7039943-data-usage-for-c...
drowsspa 4y ago
Even if you accept their pinky promise, won't people seeing others people's conversations just a few weeks ago?
- dgellow 4y ago
  Only discussion titles (some payment information also leaked though).
- hhh 4y ago
  This is unrelated to API use.

dgellow 4y ago

OpenAI says they aren’t training on chat GPT conversations. Up to you to see if you believe them or not. They also said having a 30 days data retention policy, that is compatible with GDPR. https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/01/addressing-criticism-openai-will-no-longer-use-customer-data-to-train-its-models-by-default/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/01/addressing-criticism-opena...