8 ms·

Their EU pricing is just insane

by jpeter 3y ago

qtzfw 3y ago
[flagged]
noselasd 3y ago
Indeed, their pricing is way off, the low end models are too pricy for most non tech users. When you start getting up to the models with 16gb ram/512gb disks, which I consider an absolute minimum, their price is jut too insane for many tech users.
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fabian2k 3y ago
Just looked at it, and it certainly is. I mean Apple was always more expensive, but the difference is just huge now. For me 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD is kind of the minimum (I would buy 32GB RAM if I can get it for a fair price). I can get that for less than 1000 EUR as a Windows/Linux notebook with reasonably good quality. For Apple it seems to start at 2300 EUR with these specs, and that is for relatively small screen sizes which doesn't match my preference. Of course there are many more differences here, but this seems to be kind of the price floor for reasonable specs.
- threeseed 3y ago
  > I can get that for less than 1000 EUR Please by all means provide a link. Often when you see these sort of comparisons it's low spec screens, memory + SSDs.
  - qumpis 3y ago
    Yes, I have no idea why people are comparing apple's excellent hardware to gaming laptops with wobbly hinges and inefficient CPUs that are intended for different purpose altogether. All tech in Europe is costlier. Check Dell 2023 XPS lineup and compare to macbooks - it won't get come out cheaper.
    - nightski 3y ago
      Hmm, my gaming oriented laptop (not what I use it for) does not have wobbly hinges at all, and I find the aluminum on the macs far more susceptible to dings and crap than the hardshell of the PC laptop.
  - adriancr 3y ago
    Here's one under 1000e: https://www.coolblue.nl/en/product/917297/asus-zenbook-14-um425qa-ki174w.html https://www.coolblue.nl/en/product/917297/asus-zenbook-14-um... If you spend 1250e you can get oled screens which are nicer then apple https://www.coolblue.nl/en/product/904043/asus-zenbook-14-um3402ya-km115w.html https://www.coolblue.nl/en/product/904043/asus-zenbook-14-um...
    - ericpauley 3y ago
      > 1080p screen Not the same. 1080 would be unbearable compared to a MacBook pro screen at 14” (3024x1964). Edit: the oled one has acceptable resolution. I don’t see any specs on the ssd though so it may be SATA junk. The problem with other manufacturers is that they aggressively skimp in all the places people don’t look. Part of what you get for the Apple tax is some assurance that’s not happening.
      - adriancr 3y ago
        Apple is close to double the price though for an arguably worse display compared to the oled one. So OP is right in that options are present that are cheaper and perhaps better for his use case. edit: oled laptop comes comes with PM9A1 ssd which has 7GB reads, 5GB writes which is faster then Apple too (apple has 5GB reads, 4GB writes).
ChuckNorris89 3y ago
Yeah, a starting price of 1500 Euros for a base M2 13 inch with 8GB of RAM and 256GB SSD is insane. I had an Acer with 16GB of RAM and 512GB SSD since 2016 for something like 850-900 Euros back then and it wasn't some high-end gaming machine. Of course this Apple machine is much better than mine, but the comparison is to highlight what insane markups Apple is charging today on SSD and RAM configs that are years out of date. No wonder their profits are so good. Also, considering how poorly the base single channel 256GB SSD performs on the M2 machines, I wouldn't be surprised if my 7 year old Samsung 850 EVO SATA SSD would actually beat it.
illiarian 3y ago
I've always joked that if you want a maxed-out model, it's cheaper to fly to the States, buy there, and fly back than to buy in Europe (especially in Sweden where I am right now)
- soneil 3y ago
  That's almost entirely Sweden having a high tax rate though. I just priced out an M2 MBA with ram & ssd maxed out. $2499 USD in the US and 33009kr in Sweden. $2499 is 26163kr, +25% VAT is 32705kr. So you're paying 304kr / $29 more than the US price.
  - rchaud 3y ago
    There's a sales tax in the US too. 7.25% in CA, on top of the product price.
    - greydius 3y ago
      Protip: Delaware has no sales tax.
      - no_wizard 3y ago
        Oregon too!
      - paulcole 3y ago
        Oregon as well.
    - VWWHFSfQ 3y ago
      Many states have no sales tax.
      - lotsofpulp 3y ago
        There are only 5, Alaska, New Hampshire, Montana, Delaware, and Oregon. And the only one with a decent size city and airport is Oregon, but even then, it does not have significant international flights (though close enough to San Francisco and Seattle airports). I guess New Hampshire has an Apple Store 45min from Boston airport, and Delaware has one about the same time from Philadelphia airport.
whitehexagon 3y ago
I've avoided M series for this reason, and the more proprietary/locked down design... but also it seems like all we do with these upgrades is encourage more software bloat, especially on the browser side. Environmentally I also dont like the push for minor increments every year across their range of products, and then forced 'obsolete' rating for perfectly working devices. I have a box full already thanks. I hope to use my current machine until it physically breaks, and then switch to open-hardware.
- Tagbert 3y ago
  The "obsolete" designation is only for models that are several years old and it just means that they will no longer get software updates. You are free to keep using them as long as you like. No one is expecting you to buy a new laptop every year, even if Apple does updates each year. Other people are buying new machines on their own timelines that do not synchronize with you. They are able to get the latest machine available when they are ready to buy. Cars are updated every year but you don't feel the same pressure to update, do you?
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vishnugupta 3y ago
Same in India. So much so that they are now being smuggled into India[1], there's a hefty profit to be made. [1] https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/07/09/iphones-worth-134000-seized-smuggled-into-india-as-garments https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/07/09/iphones-worth-134... https://www.republicworld.com/india-news/general-news/in-mumbai-3646-iphones-worth-rs-42cr-seized-at-airport-smuggled-from-hong-kong.html https://www.republicworld.com/india-news/general-news/in-mum...

Their EU pricing is just insane

by jpeter 3y ago

Their EU pricing is just insane

qtzfw 3y ago

[flagged]

noselasd 3y ago

Indeed, their pricing is way off, the low end models are too pricy for most non tech users. When you start getting up to the models with 16gb ram/512gb disks, which I consider an absolute minimum, their price is jut too insane for many tech users.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

fabian2k 3y ago

Just looked at it, and it certainly is. I mean Apple was always more expensive, but the difference is just huge now. For me 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD is kind of the minimum (I would buy 32GB RAM if I can get it for a fair price). I can get that for less than 1000 EUR as a Windows/Linux notebook with reasonably good quality. For Apple it seems to start at 2300 EUR with these specs, and that is for relatively small screen sizes which doesn't match my preference. Of course there are many more differences here, but this seems to be kind of the price floor for reasonable specs.

threeseed 3y ago
> I can get that for less than 1000 EUR Please by all means provide a link. Often when you see these sort of comparisons it's low spec screens, memory + SSDs.
- qumpis 3y ago
  Yes, I have no idea why people are comparing apple's excellent hardware to gaming laptops with wobbly hinges and inefficient CPUs that are intended for different purpose altogether. All tech in Europe is costlier. Check Dell 2023 XPS lineup and compare to macbooks - it won't get come out cheaper.
  - nightski 3y ago
    Hmm, my gaming oriented laptop (not what I use it for) does not have wobbly hinges at all, and I find the aluminum on the macs far more susceptible to dings and crap than the hardshell of the PC laptop.
- adriancr 3y ago
  Here's one under 1000e: https://www.coolblue.nl/en/product/917297/asus-zenbook-14-um425qa-ki174w.html https://www.coolblue.nl/en/product/917297/asus-zenbook-14-um... If you spend 1250e you can get oled screens which are nicer then apple https://www.coolblue.nl/en/product/904043/asus-zenbook-14-um3402ya-km115w.html https://www.coolblue.nl/en/product/904043/asus-zenbook-14-um...
  - ericpauley 3y ago
    > 1080p screen Not the same. 1080 would be unbearable compared to a MacBook pro screen at 14” (3024x1964). Edit: the oled one has acceptable resolution. I don’t see any specs on the ssd though so it may be SATA junk. The problem with other manufacturers is that they aggressively skimp in all the places people don’t look. Part of what you get for the Apple tax is some assurance that’s not happening.
    - adriancr 3y ago
      Apple is close to double the price though for an arguably worse display compared to the oled one. So OP is right in that options are present that are cheaper and perhaps better for his use case. edit: oled laptop comes comes with PM9A1 ssd which has 7GB reads, 5GB writes which is faster then Apple too (apple has 5GB reads, 4GB writes).

ChuckNorris89 3y ago

Yeah, a starting price of 1500 Euros for a base M2 13 inch with 8GB of RAM and 256GB SSD is insane. I had an Acer with 16GB of RAM and 512GB SSD since 2016 for something like 850-900 Euros back then and it wasn't some high-end gaming machine. Of course this Apple machine is much better than mine, but the comparison is to highlight what insane markups Apple is charging today on SSD and RAM configs that are years out of date. No wonder their profits are so good. Also, considering how poorly the base single channel 256GB SSD performs on the M2 machines, I wouldn't be surprised if my 7 year old Samsung 850 EVO SATA SSD would actually beat it.

illiarian 3y ago

I've always joked that if you want a maxed-out model, it's cheaper to fly to the States, buy there, and fly back than to buy in Europe (especially in Sweden where I am right now)

soneil 3y ago
That's almost entirely Sweden having a high tax rate though. I just priced out an M2 MBA with ram & ssd maxed out. $2499 USD in the US and 33009kr in Sweden. $2499 is 26163kr, +25% VAT is 32705kr. So you're paying 304kr / $29 more than the US price.
- rchaud 3y ago
  There's a sales tax in the US too. 7.25% in CA, on top of the product price.
  - greydius 3y ago
    Protip: Delaware has no sales tax.
    - no_wizard 3y ago
      Oregon too!
    - paulcole 3y ago
      Oregon as well.
  - VWWHFSfQ 3y ago
    Many states have no sales tax.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      There are only 5, Alaska, New Hampshire, Montana, Delaware, and Oregon. And the only one with a decent size city and airport is Oregon, but even then, it does not have significant international flights (though close enough to San Francisco and Seattle airports). I guess New Hampshire has an Apple Store 45min from Boston airport, and Delaware has one about the same time from Philadelphia airport.

whitehexagon 3y ago

I've avoided M series for this reason, and the more proprietary/locked down design... but also it seems like all we do with these upgrades is encourage more software bloat, especially on the browser side. Environmentally I also dont like the push for minor increments every year across their range of products, and then forced 'obsolete' rating for perfectly working devices. I have a box full already thanks. I hope to use my current machine until it physically breaks, and then switch to open-hardware.

Tagbert 3y ago
The "obsolete" designation is only for models that are several years old and it just means that they will no longer get software updates. You are free to keep using them as long as you like. No one is expecting you to buy a new laptop every year, even if Apple does updates each year. Other people are buying new machines on their own timelines that do not synchronize with you. They are able to get the latest machine available when they are ready to buy. Cars are updated every year but you don't feel the same pressure to update, do you?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

vishnugupta 3y ago

Same in India. So much so that they are now being smuggled into India[1], there's a hefty profit to be made. [1] https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/07/09/iphones-worth-134000-seized-smuggled-into-india-as-garments https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/07/09/iphones-worth-134... https://www.republicworld.com/india-news/general-news/in-mumbai-3646-iphones-worth-rs-42cr-seized-at-airport-smuggled-from-hong-kong.html https://www.republicworld.com/india-news/general-news/in-mum...