3 ms·

Even as a US-focused history, it still doesn't focus on the hobbyist culture the Apple II formed out of: > Instead, as historian Laine Nooney shows, what made

by msla 4y ago

Even as a US-focused history, it still doesn't focus on the hobbyist culture the Apple II formed out of: > Instead, as historian Laine Nooney shows, what made the Apple II iconic was its software. In software, we discover the material reasons people bought computers. Not to hack, but to play. Not to code, but to calculate. Not to program, but to print. Drawing a distinction between hacking and playing, and between playing and coding, is definitely a take, as the kids say, and means Nooney apparently wants to focus on the consumer-oriented aspects of that era of personal computing which lead more directly into the closed world of the Macintosh and Apple's current offerings. An old grumble of mine is how these histories tend to ignore the distinction between business computers and gaming/infotainment computers or, in practical terms, S-100 based machines running CP/M and mostly 6502 based machines running a ROM BASIC. This book apparently takes that to the next level, downplaying even the technical side of the less-technical consumer-focused machines.

ghaff 4y ago
The Apple II and successors were popular--don't get me wrong. (And in modern times the Mac although less in numbers than its prominence would suggest.) But the Apple II is mostly so iconic compared to other systems of the general era because Apple as a whole became so iconic. >or, in practical terms, S-100 based machines running CP/M and mostly 6502 based machines running a ROM BASIC Although, in practical terms, pre-IBM PC there was very little overall use of personal computers in offices. Yes, some, I used an Apple II then Apple III for some light engineering and database work but it wasn't very commonplace.
- TMWNN 4y ago
  >But the Apple II is mostly so iconic compared to other systems of the general era because Apple as a whole became so iconic. I don't disagree that had Apple gone bankrupt in 1997, there wouldn't be as much Apple II nostalgia today. But it's not true that Apple's iconic status is a modern-day phenomenon. From the very beginning, Apple had the je ne sais quoi that its rivals didn't, and I say that one who did not own an Apple II. Read this 1984 BYTE piece <https://archive.org/stream/byte-magazine-1984-12/1984_12_BYTE_09-13_Communications#page/n399/mode/2up https://archive.org/stream/byte-magazine-1984-12/1984_12_BYT...>, for instance. Looking back, it's some combination of * Jobs and Woz being the symbols of the company * VisiCalc * Disk II * the slots * color * the focus on industrial design That special something is what made Mac work. No other company in 1984 could have released a non IBM PC-compatible computer and had it go anywhere in the market, or inspire substantial third-party support from large vendors. Atari and Commodore followed only a year later, with superior hardware, and failed.
  - drewcoo 4y ago
    Most of the features you list are geek features. My favorite geek feature was that the hardware was proprietary but open - anyone could see how it worked and even buy schematics. Aside from geek features, Jobs and Woz only became better known later, after Apple was a success. Apple IIs were in most schools. That was what stood out to most people - out of all the various and weird computers on the market at the time, and before IBM clones they were different, Apple was the one "endorsed" by the school system. Macs and iPhones and whatnot aren't even part of the story. The pre-OSX Mac was part of the Star Wars prequel of Apple tech that tried to seem fancy and cool but was awful and no one liked it, so I suppose the iPhone was episodes 7-9.
    - WorldMaker 4y ago
      > Apple IIs were in most schools. That was what stood out to most people - out of all the various and weird computers on the market at the time, and before IBM clones they were different, Apple was the one "endorsed" by the school system. That's why I think, more than any specific feature of the hardware, the real driver of Apple II success in US was always the one-and-only Minnesota Educational Computing Consortium [1]. I don't think that Apple II would have had anything near as much as the same sort of US-wide reach without its "PBS of educational software" existing at that critical juncture point in history. "Every" school in the country needed an Apple II to run MECC software, because MECC software was easily approved to be parts of the curriculum. The Macintosh was seen as the computer for education riding on the coat-tails of MECC products and the few produced for the early Macintosh. PCs became more common in education exactly as soon as MECC was destroyed by vultures and schools needed to start penny pinching because there were few other as easily approved pieces of software to replace MECC's brief central place in the US classroom. (The fall of MECC was its own sad reminder of how privatization often leads to vultures and scavenging. It is interesting to wonder what might have happened had MECC better followed the "PBS" model, and possibly gotten more national arts and sciences resources behind it, instead of IPO then buyout by vultures.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MECC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MECC
JKCalhoun 4y ago
I just presume the book is focusing on when the hobbyist machine became a consumer machine. I don't have a problem with a book choosing that slice of history to focus on.

by msla 4y ago

ghaff 4y ago

The Apple II and successors were popular--don't get me wrong. (And in modern times the Mac although less in numbers than its prominence would suggest.) But the Apple II is mostly so iconic compared to other systems of the general era because Apple as a whole became so iconic. >or, in practical terms, S-100 based machines running CP/M and mostly 6502 based machines running a ROM BASIC Although, in practical terms, pre-IBM PC there was very little overall use of personal computers in offices. Yes, some, I used an Apple II then Apple III for some light engineering and database work but it wasn't very commonplace.

TMWNN 4y ago
>But the Apple II is mostly so iconic compared to other systems of the general era because Apple as a whole became so iconic. I don't disagree that had Apple gone bankrupt in 1997, there wouldn't be as much Apple II nostalgia today. But it's not true that Apple's iconic status is a modern-day phenomenon. From the very beginning, Apple had the je ne sais quoi that its rivals didn't, and I say that one who did not own an Apple II. Read this 1984 BYTE piece <https://archive.org/stream/byte-magazine-1984-12/1984_12_BYTE_09-13_Communications#page/n399/mode/2up https://archive.org/stream/byte-magazine-1984-12/1984_12_BYT...>, for instance. Looking back, it's some combination of * Jobs and Woz being the symbols of the company * VisiCalc * Disk II * the slots * color * the focus on industrial design That special something is what made Mac work. No other company in 1984 could have released a non IBM PC-compatible computer and had it go anywhere in the market, or inspire substantial third-party support from large vendors. Atari and Commodore followed only a year later, with superior hardware, and failed.
- drewcoo 4y ago
  Most of the features you list are geek features. My favorite geek feature was that the hardware was proprietary but open - anyone could see how it worked and even buy schematics. Aside from geek features, Jobs and Woz only became better known later, after Apple was a success. Apple IIs were in most schools. That was what stood out to most people - out of all the various and weird computers on the market at the time, and before IBM clones they were different, Apple was the one "endorsed" by the school system. Macs and iPhones and whatnot aren't even part of the story. The pre-OSX Mac was part of the Star Wars prequel of Apple tech that tried to seem fancy and cool but was awful and no one liked it, so I suppose the iPhone was episodes 7-9.
  - WorldMaker 4y ago
    > Apple IIs were in most schools. That was what stood out to most people - out of all the various and weird computers on the market at the time, and before IBM clones they were different, Apple was the one "endorsed" by the school system. That's why I think, more than any specific feature of the hardware, the real driver of Apple II success in US was always the one-and-only Minnesota Educational Computing Consortium [1]. I don't think that Apple II would have had anything near as much as the same sort of US-wide reach without its "PBS of educational software" existing at that critical juncture point in history. "Every" school in the country needed an Apple II to run MECC software, because MECC software was easily approved to be parts of the curriculum. The Macintosh was seen as the computer for education riding on the coat-tails of MECC products and the few produced for the early Macintosh. PCs became more common in education exactly as soon as MECC was destroyed by vultures and schools needed to start penny pinching because there were few other as easily approved pieces of software to replace MECC's brief central place in the US classroom. (The fall of MECC was its own sad reminder of how privatization often leads to vultures and scavenging. It is interesting to wonder what might have happened had MECC better followed the "PBS" model, and possibly gotten more national arts and sciences resources behind it, instead of IPO then buyout by vultures.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MECC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MECC

JKCalhoun 4y ago

I just presume the book is focusing on when the hobbyist machine became a consumer machine. I don't have a problem with a book choosing that slice of history to focus on.