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We have exactly the same policies in Europe. In fact it was the directing line explained by Klaus Schwab, the West should consume less energy and let the rest o

We have exactly the same policies in Europe. In fact it was the directing line explained by Klaus Schwab, the West should consume less energy and let the rest of the world prosper. The danger is, when you have less energy, your industries move to countries where they can consume/emit, and you become a vassal state of those countries. If I were China, I would fund the hell of decarbonation and anti-nuclear groups.

riffraff 4y ago
> The danger is, when you have less energy, your industries move to countries where they can consume/emit, and you become a vassal state of those countries. "Just" add carbon tariffs, which is what the eu was planning to do on steel, for example.
- pgeorgi 4y ago
  "Planning to do" sounds like it won't happen. https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/green-taxation-0/carbon-border-adjustment-mechanism_en https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/green-taxation-0/carbo... gives October 2023 as a start date.
  - riffraff 4y ago
    thanks, I only used the past because I remember this was in the works but did not follow the development. Glad to know it is in force already.
roenxi 4y ago
> ...and you become a vassal state of those countries. As an interesting aside, I would like to see Australia opening negotiations with India in case the US pulls back from the Pacific. If it turns out the US can't afford to fight China and Russia at the same time, I think signing up with India is probably the most workable path. Either as some sort of inferior ally or maybe trying to sign up as a full Indian state.
- alephnerd 4y ago
  > Either as some sort of inferior ally or maybe trying to sign up as a full Indian state This overstates India's power projection and understates Australia's. Instead - Japan, Australia, and India have been workng on Trilateral Defense and Economic relations since the mid-2010s, with this being formalized with the Quad (which offically isn't a defense agreement yet). SK and VN have also shown interest in joining the Quad, and honestly, it makes more sense in the Asia context. On the economic and energy policy side, ik India+Japan have put their renewable eggs in the Blue and Brown Hydrogen strategy - use Australian NatGas and Coal to create Hydrogen cells. This also allows both India and Japan to minimize any dependencies on Chinese battery tech and supply chains and integrate Australia's economy closer with India+Japan [0][1][2][3], and Australian mining companies are being selected by India to help with the Lithium deposits in Jammu [4] [0] - https://www.csis.org/analysis/japans-hydrogen-industrial-strategy https://www.csis.org/analysis/japans-hydrogen-industrial-str... [1] - https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-hydrogen https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-hydrogen [2] - https://www.pv-magazine-india.com/2021/12/11/the-long-read-reliance-industries-fully-integrated-end-to-end-renewable-energy-ecosystem-plans/ https://www.pv-magazine-india.com/2021/12/11/the-long-read-r... [3] - https://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/trade-and-investment/india-economic-strategy/ies/index.html https://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/trade-and-investment/in... [4] - https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Markets/Commodities/India-s-big-lithium-find-fuels-hopes-and-fears-in-Jammu-and-Kashmir https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Markets/Commodities/India-s...

riffraff 4y ago

> The danger is, when you have less energy, your industries move to countries where they can consume/emit, and you become a vassal state of those countries. "Just" add carbon tariffs, which is what the eu was planning to do on steel, for example.

pgeorgi 4y ago
"Planning to do" sounds like it won't happen. https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/green-taxation-0/carbon-border-adjustment-mechanism_en https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/green-taxation-0/carbo... gives October 2023 as a start date.
- riffraff 4y ago
  thanks, I only used the past because I remember this was in the works but did not follow the development. Glad to know it is in force already.

roenxi 4y ago

> ...and you become a vassal state of those countries. As an interesting aside, I would like to see Australia opening negotiations with India in case the US pulls back from the Pacific. If it turns out the US can't afford to fight China and Russia at the same time, I think signing up with India is probably the most workable path. Either as some sort of inferior ally or maybe trying to sign up as a full Indian state.

alephnerd 4y ago
> Either as some sort of inferior ally or maybe trying to sign up as a full Indian state This overstates India's power projection and understates Australia's. Instead - Japan, Australia, and India have been workng on Trilateral Defense and Economic relations since the mid-2010s, with this being formalized with the Quad (which offically isn't a defense agreement yet). SK and VN have also shown interest in joining the Quad, and honestly, it makes more sense in the Asia context. On the economic and energy policy side, ik India+Japan have put their renewable eggs in the Blue and Brown Hydrogen strategy - use Australian NatGas and Coal to create Hydrogen cells. This also allows both India and Japan to minimize any dependencies on Chinese battery tech and supply chains and integrate Australia's economy closer with India+Japan [0][1][2][3], and Australian mining companies are being selected by India to help with the Lithium deposits in Jammu [4] [0] - https://www.csis.org/analysis/japans-hydrogen-industrial-strategy https://www.csis.org/analysis/japans-hydrogen-industrial-str... [1] - https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-hydrogen https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-hydrogen [2] - https://www.pv-magazine-india.com/2021/12/11/the-long-read-reliance-industries-fully-integrated-end-to-end-renewable-energy-ecosystem-plans/ https://www.pv-magazine-india.com/2021/12/11/the-long-read-r... [3] - https://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/trade-and-investment/india-economic-strategy/ies/index.html https://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/trade-and-investment/in... [4] - https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Markets/Commodities/India-s-big-lithium-find-fuels-hopes-and-fears-in-Jammu-and-Kashmir https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Markets/Commodities/India-s...