5 ms·

Xylazine is not an opiate and has its own withdrawal effects. Also people are often not well educated on drugs or even know what is in the drugs they take. It i

Xylazine is not an opiate and has its own withdrawal effects. Also people are often not well educated on drugs or even know what is in the drugs they take. It is an adulterant and it is a street drug, so switching to 'another opiate' without an adulterant in it isn't going to be easy. Even pills are fake nowadays. There is absolutely no valid reason we can't treat people with suboxone, which will allow them to maintain their addiction without getting high. However it needs a prescription and doctors usually won't just prescribe it to addicts, especially for extended time periods. This could all be 'fixed' if people didn't have a subconscious need to make people 'pay' for doing things they feel are wrong. A good example of this is when I got a complete workup done by a liver specialist, having been a very hard drinker earlier in life. Upon telling a close family member that everything came up fine and there were no lasting effects they commented 'that shouldn't be right' as if I had cheated society somehow by not having health consequences for being an alcoholic.

eurasiantiger 4y ago
[flagged]
- b800h 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - danielheath 4y ago
    What the bible says and how christendom are observed to behave are very, very different things. While I'm sure you could point out this is true for other beliefs, they aren't being followed by virtually everyone in government where this is happening.
    - b800h 4y ago
      I somewhat agree with your point - there is a lot of Old Testament morality going around - enough being spouted from various confused people (especially in the US, where your point may be truer) that it then confuses the antis into attacking Christians on the spurious grounds of eating shellfish or whatever.
  - Broken_Hippo 4y ago
    This is obviously not true - or at least, not true across the board. There might be some that don't do punishment. But... we have places like the Salvation Army that would rather have folks die instead of giving a trans person shelter and help. There are abusive homeless shelters peppered across the US, some of which have forced church, forced drug classes, and forced work. Some of these will take away your possessions or turn away a man with children because the shelter that allows children has a strict "no man" policy. Right this very moment, people are passing laws to ban trans folks and take rights away from queer people in general. It doesn't really matter what you think the point is, it obviously either isn't shared or doesn't show in people's actions. There are plenty of examples of christians actively doing harm in real time.
    - b800h 4y ago
      It really isn't "obviously untrue". I can't speak for the Salvation Army but they need to examine themselves if they aren't unconditionally offering help to those in need. I appreciate that I'm in danger of doing a "No True Scotsman" fallacy here, but my original point stands. This is evidence of a lack of the core precept of Christianity.
      - Broken_Hippo 4y ago
        It doesn't really matter what you think the core precept of Christianity is. It is great if you practice differently. I know some people do try to be kind. As I said, "At least it isn't true across the board". It is very obvious that folks aren't unconditionally offering help to those in need, using the banner of Christianity to justify it. And to justify homophobia, racism, misogyny, and a slew of other things. And what I've seen very little of is other folks speaking out. I see folks protesting comprehensive sex ed and birth control, while these shelters (and others) get no pushback. Do better if you want views like this to change. Be loud and help folks.
        b800h 4y ago
        > Do better Bit presumptuous. The original point was about a desire for drug users to "atone" for their behaviour in order to get help. It's utterly unchristian, literally flies in the face of the core Christian value. There are a bunch of noisy people in the southern states of the US who don't understand why the Old Testament is included in the Bible. It's a huge problem, and it's showing up in this conversation.
  - justinclift 4y ago
    > The whole point of Christianity is that Christ's sacrifice on the cross ... Wasn't much of a "sacrifice" though was it? Like, he arose a few days later,so effectively his "sacrifice" was a weekend or so. /s
    - b800h 4y ago
      I question your use of /s !
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - jwally 4y ago
      Not to mention he became co emperor of the universe and got to go back and hang out with his dad / self. I can't imagine crucifixion feels good, but this "sacrifice" pales in comparison to what the parents of CMH recipients endure; let alone what the recipients themselves did to save their friends. They knew they risked death and torture with no foreknowledge they would be worshipped by billions for all eternity.
  - FrenchDevRemote 4y ago
    Yeah atone for your sins, by burning in hell for eternity, lol
  - pcthrowaway 4y ago
    > Perhaps you'd like to attack Judaism instead, but that isn't as fashionable, is it Judaism (as a religion) is largely unconcerned with the behaviour of non-Jewish people. The "gentiles" are not expected in any way to follow the laws of the old testament, and also don't benefit from doing so in any way
    - b800h 4y ago
      Well, the Noachide laws at least. Sorry, comment wasn't aimed at Judaism, more that Christianity explicitly overturned the concept of atonement so the original comment could literally be no more wrong.
rayiner 4y ago
[flagged]
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  > There’s people creating drugs that turn people into zombies Because there is no safe, above-ground supply chain for those drugs with actual quality control and penalties for contaminated supply. > there’s people taking drugs where they don’t even know what’s in the drugs It's not like those addicts have a choice of walking into a pharmacy and being able to buy a safe drug manufactured by a reputable pharma company with a datasheet of exactly what's in it. Both of these problems are caused by the stupid "war on drugs".
  - danrl 4y ago
    I doubt most addicts would have the means to buy high quality substances. And of those who had, some may still chose the cheaper street stuff. And this is where society often is asked to pick up the bill. With guaranteed payment out of tax dollars the pharmacy company producing the substitute now has an incentive to get people on it. The problem will never be solved but now it is even more expensive. This is a misallocation of tax money in my opinion. Singapore doesn’t seem to have a huge drug problem, and they went all in on what you call “the war on drugs”. So maybe there is a winning strategy there, at least for Singapore?
    - IntrepidWorm 4y ago
      What works for Singapore works for Singapore; the US is a very different country. As for the failings of the "War on Drugs" in the US, these have been well documented by multiple levels of social research.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    Why are you assuming that drugs are a product that need to exist in the first place?
    - 4y ago
gruez 4y ago
>they commented 'that shouldn't be right' as if I had cheated society somehow by not having health consequences for being an alcoholic. That's not my interpretation of it, which is that "that shouldn't be right" refers to an unexpected outcome given the assumptions, rather than some sort of sense of justice being violated.
- Eisenstein 4y ago
  The interpretation I gave was my interpretation since I know the person well and was present when it was said.
LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
> There is absolutely no valid reason we can't treat people with suboxone You're absolutely 100% right about this. This should be the first part of any treatment, to make it easier to separate the druggie from the drug camp and then come off, if possible, at a reasonable time as decided on by them and their team. This is one of the cores of the Portuguese system, to use some drugs to wean people off the dangerous ones. > This could all be 'fixed' if people didn't have a subconscious need to make people 'pay' for doing things they feel are wrong. I know some people like this, but I see more people saying this in that we shouldn't forgive the violent and non-drug related crimes people committed while resisting being removed from the streets. They don't want them not treated, but they want them jailed instead of released once they're clean. It's hard to argue - I've personally helped two old female shopkeepers chase thieves out of their store. Threatening and obviously disrespectful and non-needs related thieves too, not someone simply trying to take a bottle of water and food.

eurasiantiger 4y ago

[flagged]

b800h 4y ago
[flagged]
- danielheath 4y ago
  What the bible says and how christendom are observed to behave are very, very different things. While I'm sure you could point out this is true for other beliefs, they aren't being followed by virtually everyone in government where this is happening.
  - b800h 4y ago
    I somewhat agree with your point - there is a lot of Old Testament morality going around - enough being spouted from various confused people (especially in the US, where your point may be truer) that it then confuses the antis into attacking Christians on the spurious grounds of eating shellfish or whatever.
- Broken_Hippo 4y ago
  This is obviously not true - or at least, not true across the board. There might be some that don't do punishment. But... we have places like the Salvation Army that would rather have folks die instead of giving a trans person shelter and help. There are abusive homeless shelters peppered across the US, some of which have forced church, forced drug classes, and forced work. Some of these will take away your possessions or turn away a man with children because the shelter that allows children has a strict "no man" policy. Right this very moment, people are passing laws to ban trans folks and take rights away from queer people in general. It doesn't really matter what you think the point is, it obviously either isn't shared or doesn't show in people's actions. There are plenty of examples of christians actively doing harm in real time.
  - b800h 4y ago
    It really isn't "obviously untrue". I can't speak for the Salvation Army but they need to examine themselves if they aren't unconditionally offering help to those in need. I appreciate that I'm in danger of doing a "No True Scotsman" fallacy here, but my original point stands. This is evidence of a lack of the core precept of Christianity.
    - Broken_Hippo 4y ago
      It doesn't really matter what you think the core precept of Christianity is. It is great if you practice differently. I know some people do try to be kind. As I said, "At least it isn't true across the board". It is very obvious that folks aren't unconditionally offering help to those in need, using the banner of Christianity to justify it. And to justify homophobia, racism, misogyny, and a slew of other things. And what I've seen very little of is other folks speaking out. I see folks protesting comprehensive sex ed and birth control, while these shelters (and others) get no pushback. Do better if you want views like this to change. Be loud and help folks.
      - b800h 4y ago
        > Do better Bit presumptuous. The original point was about a desire for drug users to "atone" for their behaviour in order to get help. It's utterly unchristian, literally flies in the face of the core Christian value. There are a bunch of noisy people in the southern states of the US who don't understand why the Old Testament is included in the Bible. It's a huge problem, and it's showing up in this conversation.
- justinclift 4y ago
  > The whole point of Christianity is that Christ's sacrifice on the cross ... Wasn't much of a "sacrifice" though was it? Like, he arose a few days later,so effectively his "sacrifice" was a weekend or so. /s
  - b800h 4y ago
    I question your use of /s !
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - jwally 4y ago
    Not to mention he became co emperor of the universe and got to go back and hang out with his dad / self. I can't imagine crucifixion feels good, but this "sacrifice" pales in comparison to what the parents of CMH recipients endure; let alone what the recipients themselves did to save their friends. They knew they risked death and torture with no foreknowledge they would be worshipped by billions for all eternity.
- FrenchDevRemote 4y ago
  Yeah atone for your sins, by burning in hell for eternity, lol
- pcthrowaway 4y ago
  > Perhaps you'd like to attack Judaism instead, but that isn't as fashionable, is it Judaism (as a religion) is largely unconcerned with the behaviour of non-Jewish people. The "gentiles" are not expected in any way to follow the laws of the old testament, and also don't benefit from doing so in any way
  - b800h 4y ago
    Well, the Noachide laws at least. Sorry, comment wasn't aimed at Judaism, more that Christianity explicitly overturned the concept of atonement so the original comment could literally be no more wrong.

rayiner 4y ago

[flagged]

Nextgrid 4y ago
> There’s people creating drugs that turn people into zombies Because there is no safe, above-ground supply chain for those drugs with actual quality control and penalties for contaminated supply. > there’s people taking drugs where they don’t even know what’s in the drugs It's not like those addicts have a choice of walking into a pharmacy and being able to buy a safe drug manufactured by a reputable pharma company with a datasheet of exactly what's in it. Both of these problems are caused by the stupid "war on drugs".
- danrl 4y ago
  I doubt most addicts would have the means to buy high quality substances. And of those who had, some may still chose the cheaper street stuff. And this is where society often is asked to pick up the bill. With guaranteed payment out of tax dollars the pharmacy company producing the substitute now has an incentive to get people on it. The problem will never be solved but now it is even more expensive. This is a misallocation of tax money in my opinion. Singapore doesn’t seem to have a huge drug problem, and they went all in on what you call “the war on drugs”. So maybe there is a winning strategy there, at least for Singapore?
  - IntrepidWorm 4y ago
    What works for Singapore works for Singapore; the US is a very different country. As for the failings of the "War on Drugs" in the US, these have been well documented by multiple levels of social research.
- rayiner 4y ago
  Why are you assuming that drugs are a product that need to exist in the first place?
  - 4y ago

gruez 4y ago

>they commented 'that shouldn't be right' as if I had cheated society somehow by not having health consequences for being an alcoholic. That's not my interpretation of it, which is that "that shouldn't be right" refers to an unexpected outcome given the assumptions, rather than some sort of sense of justice being violated.

Eisenstein 4y ago
The interpretation I gave was my interpretation since I know the person well and was present when it was said.

LawTalkingGuy 4y ago

> There is absolutely no valid reason we can't treat people with suboxone You're absolutely 100% right about this. This should be the first part of any treatment, to make it easier to separate the druggie from the drug camp and then come off, if possible, at a reasonable time as decided on by them and their team. This is one of the cores of the Portuguese system, to use some drugs to wean people off the dangerous ones. > This could all be 'fixed' if people didn't have a subconscious need to make people 'pay' for doing things they feel are wrong. I know some people like this, but I see more people saying this in that we shouldn't forgive the violent and non-drug related crimes people committed while resisting being removed from the streets. They don't want them not treated, but they want them jailed instead of released once they're clean. It's hard to argue - I've personally helped two old female shopkeepers chase thieves out of their store. Threatening and obviously disrespectful and non-needs related thieves too, not someone simply trying to take a bottle of water and food.