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As someone who's been on his own journey with alcohol and hung out in a few sobriety forums (/r/stopdrinking is brilliant), I've seen a very clear difference be

As someone who's been on his own journey with alcohol and hung out in a few sobriety forums (/r/stopdrinking is brilliant), I've seen a very clear difference between the 12-steppers and other people who are quit/quitting/moderating. I found the framing of the AA folks to be a lot more extreme. Problematic alcohol use is frequently described as an incurable, progressive disease. There's also this heavy focus on guilt and shame (see steps 4, 5 and 8) which I've always found a little uncomfortable and well, culty. I'm not saying it's not helpful, it's saved many a backside. Nor am I saying that it's success-rate is oversold, I've not gone into the evidence. It was just definitely, clearly not for me.

specproc 4y ago
FWIW, I am not an atheist and no longer drinking like I used to.
- mikestew 4y ago
  You can edit your posts within an hour or so. Look for the " edit [–]" up there to the right of your username, just before the title. EDIT: or "edit | delete [–]", as the case may be.
  - specproc 4y ago
    Interesting, can edit with hours gone by but not delete. Ah well, the inevitable next time. Thanks for the tip.
    - klyrs 4y ago
      You can edit/delete for 2 hours. You cannot delete a comment that's been replied to. Unless you somehow convince your respondents to delete their comments within your edit window, which never seems to work.
    - mikestew 4y ago
      Yeah, I should have replied to your original message so that you could delete the follow-up. As sibling comment points out, you can't delete once someone replies to your message. I knew better, I just didn't think it all the way through. Anyway, now you know.
prohobo 4y ago
I think AA "accidentally" provides people with strong community support - a basic need, the lack of which often leads people to... well, drink. AA fulfills that need, and maybe the 12 steps themselves don't work, but the community does. That's why so many people swear by it and have success with it. So yes, it'll be a little culty, because those are the principles of this particular community, but I think it's far more valuable than say, a therapist, or trying to stop on your own. My main problem with it is that people I know in AA can't seem to live without it. They depend on it so much that they're terrified of not following the 12 steps, for fear of getting "excommunicated", or worse: going back to drinking.
- musicale 4y ago
  Unlike malicious cults, AA doesn't seem to be dedicated to exploiting its members for the benefit of cult leaders. I think you are on to something, which is that providing connection can help people to overcome addiction. (Or perhaps the reverse - that addiction can help people cope with a lack of connection.) If AA is the only source of connection, then I imagine losing it might very well result in relapse simply from losing the connection itself (not to mention the encouragement to remain sober.)
- readthenotes1 4y ago
  It is no accident, otherwise going to meetings wouldn't be an essential part of it

specproc 4y ago

FWIW, I am not an atheist and no longer drinking like I used to.

mikestew 4y ago
You can edit your posts within an hour or so. Look for the " edit [–]" up there to the right of your username, just before the title. EDIT: or "edit | delete [–]", as the case may be.
- specproc 4y ago
  Interesting, can edit with hours gone by but not delete. Ah well, the inevitable next time. Thanks for the tip.
  - klyrs 4y ago
    You can edit/delete for 2 hours. You cannot delete a comment that's been replied to. Unless you somehow convince your respondents to delete their comments within your edit window, which never seems to work.
  - mikestew 4y ago
    Yeah, I should have replied to your original message so that you could delete the follow-up. As sibling comment points out, you can't delete once someone replies to your message. I knew better, I just didn't think it all the way through. Anyway, now you know.

prohobo 4y ago

I think AA "accidentally" provides people with strong community support - a basic need, the lack of which often leads people to... well, drink. AA fulfills that need, and maybe the 12 steps themselves don't work, but the community does. That's why so many people swear by it and have success with it. So yes, it'll be a little culty, because those are the principles of this particular community, but I think it's far more valuable than say, a therapist, or trying to stop on your own. My main problem with it is that people I know in AA can't seem to live without it. They depend on it so much that they're terrified of not following the 12 steps, for fear of getting "excommunicated", or worse: going back to drinking.

musicale 4y ago
Unlike malicious cults, AA doesn't seem to be dedicated to exploiting its members for the benefit of cult leaders. I think you are on to something, which is that providing connection can help people to overcome addiction. (Or perhaps the reverse - that addiction can help people cope with a lack of connection.) If AA is the only source of connection, then I imagine losing it might very well result in relapse simply from losing the connection itself (not to mention the encouragement to remain sober.)
readthenotes1 4y ago
It is no accident, otherwise going to meetings wouldn't be an essential part of it