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I'm a recovering alcoholic who has worked the 12 steps. To get this out the way, I agree that courts should not be sending people to AA. It's no good for anyone

I'm a recovering alcoholic who has worked the 12 steps. To get this out the way, I agree that courts should not be sending people to AA. It's no good for anyone. The reason that the 5 to 10 percent do well in AA actually doesn't have to do with the 12 steps themselves; it has to do with the camaraderie. I agree with the second half of the that sentence, but the reason the reason many people including researchers don't think the 12 steps is because so few people understand them to do them properly. Actually, the are a remarkable piece of mental technology based on thousands of years of wisdom 1 - Admit you have a problem. You can't fix a problem you refuse to recognize. 2 - Recognize you've tried to solve it by yourself and have failed. You need help from others. 3 - Humble yourself enough to ask for help and be ready to follow direction 4 - List all the complaints people have about you and analyze what you might be doing wrong 5 - Share your failings, no matter how embarrassing, with a trusted other on the principle that confession is good for the soul and sunlight is the best disinfectant 6 - Ask yourself if you're really willing to change. That's not a given. Maybe you aren't. 7 - If you are then do what it takes to change. This is going to be different for everyone. 8 - Look at step 4 and see who you need to apologize to 9 - When you feel you are ready and sufficiently reformed, apologize and make restitution to those on the list you made in step 8. To those that aren't willing to talk, let it go and don't bother them. 10 - Make it a practice to do steps 4 through 9 as needed. We believe in progress not perfection. 11 - We need to remind ourselves daily that we have a problem that we can't solve alone and that we may need the help of others on any given day. I've heard it called a disease of forgetfulness. We may need to wake up in the morning to read and pray if so inclined. As one person told me, "carve out a little piece of each day for the 12 steps" 12 - Carry this message to others who are still suffering, which I am doing here Edit: I almost forget: Notice I haven't mentioned God. There were atheists in early AA that insisted that Bill Wilson insert the phrase "God of our understanding" in the book Alcoholic Anonymous so people could be free to use the concept of God or not.

edmundsauto 4y ago
The steps are good advice and can be helpful for some people. That does not mean people who fail (80+% from the data I saw) are doing them wrong. Why is it so hard for people to accept that some things work, for some people. My personal experience of success is not a reasonable blueprint for literally anyone except me. Our experiences are shared but not useful to proscribe behavioral interventions for anyone except us. AA works for some people. It does not work for others.
- labrador 4y ago
  My steps aren't even Alcoholics Anonymous or about alcohol, although derived from what Bill W wrote. In my case, my personal step 7 to change was Cognitive Behavior Therapy, Dialectic Behavioral Therapy, Cognitive Processing Therapy and Jungian Therapy plus Psychiatric diagnosis and medication. Nothing about this negates the 12 steps I have outlined. Alcoholics Anonymous as it exists today is not what it used to be. It started out with people who had lost everything or were about to, people that society had given up on, "low bottom" drunks and the like, people who were desperate to stay alive like Bill himself. Today's AA I'm afraid after all the court ordered people and all the people who use it as a social club because their doctor told them that 4 glasses of wine a day was too much so they should stop. Well, it's too watered down for me and I don't go. I'm not surprised people think it doesn't work. If you want to test this, to a meeting and try to get people to try to talk about how the steps work in their lives and how they recovered and stop using their time as a gripe session and try to find sponsors who will stick to just taking you through the steps and not try to be your therapist. I've seen enough, but ymmv
boplicity 4y ago
The interesting thing about the 12 steps is that, really, they're what many, many people do anyways. Basically, they can be summed up as "take responsibility, get help when you need it, and help others when you can." This is what most emotionally mature adults do anyways. Unfortunately, the disease of alcoholism can lead people quite far from this type of otherwise normal behavior. (And not just for the drinkers!) I wish there was far more education in North America about alcoholism, especially for teenagers and pre-teens. Considering the epidimic level of damage being inflicted by the disease, I don't think it would be unreasonable to have required classes in middle school or high school on the topic.
ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
I like that breakdown. Stealing it...
- labrador 4y ago
  Great! I was talking to a friend about it and came up with a couple additional thoughts: I always felt hesitant about rewriting Bill Wilson, because he's a Saint to some people, but knew I would someday. I'm aware he's just a guy like me and if he were alive today he'd see the need for it. I think Bill W put too much emphasis on his steps causing a "spiritual awakening" because it set the bar too high. My feeling is that if people quit drinking or drugging or whatever it is that has captured them and do the work of getting better then they will naturally be in better spirits, which is a good enough spiritual awakening. Some will go further and have a Bill Wilson spiritual awakening. All the better.
somewhereoutth 4y ago
However none of that addresses or even attempts to discover the underlying cause(s) of the addiction - instead it assumes it's 'all your fault' and you just need to 'change' to fix it. Perhaps it is external factors that created and continue to drive the addiction (e.g. bad relationships, too much responsibility, unfulfilling work, feeling trapped, boredom, loneliness). Addiction often starts as self medication, before it becomes physical/physiological dependence.
- boplicity 4y ago
  > instead it assumes it's 'all your fault' Actually, that assumption is very much not part of AA, and very much not part of the 12 steps as they're usually understood. For example, take step 1. "Admit you have a problem." You seem to be saying that admitting a problem is the same as blaming oneself. NOT TRUE. In fact, one of the most important things to acknowledge is that it's not your fault. It's just a disease. And, like any disease, there are idiosyncrasies to treating it that will be different from other diseases.
  - somewhereoutth 4y ago
    but 4) 5) 6) are exactly blaming yourself. Indeed, they seem to focus on the bad things you have done (to others) as a result of your addiction, but with nothing about the cause of the addiction itself. Agree with step 1) - and 2) in many cases - but perhaps 3) should be about figuring out what's been behind it and trying to remove that stressor. And then maybe another step can consider the disease paradigm, as a self-reinforcing cycle (failure, self-loathing, self-medication, failure...)
    - boplicity 4y ago
      > 4 - List all the complaints people have about you and analyze what you might be doing wrong That's not blaming yourself for alcoholism, which I think is the point your missing. > 5 - Share your failings, no matter how embarrassing, with a trusted other on the principle that confession is good for the soul and sunlight is the best disinfectant Again, this isn't about blaming yourself for your alcoholism AT ALL. This is about taking responsibility for bad behavior, which is often a very important catalyst for deciding to the the hard work of change. > 6 - Ask yourself if you're really willing to change. That's not a given. Maybe you aren't. Deciding whether or not you're ready to change is certainly not "blaming yourself." Most alcoholics have to spend quite a lot of time forgiving themselves and letting go of blame -- which is, I think, generally very well known to people in recovery communities, but perhaps not as well known outside of them.

edmundsauto 4y ago

The steps are good advice and can be helpful for some people. That does not mean people who fail (80+% from the data I saw) are doing them wrong. Why is it so hard for people to accept that some things work, for some people. My personal experience of success is not a reasonable blueprint for literally anyone except me. Our experiences are shared but not useful to proscribe behavioral interventions for anyone except us. AA works for some people. It does not work for others.

labrador 4y ago
My steps aren't even Alcoholics Anonymous or about alcohol, although derived from what Bill W wrote. In my case, my personal step 7 to change was Cognitive Behavior Therapy, Dialectic Behavioral Therapy, Cognitive Processing Therapy and Jungian Therapy plus Psychiatric diagnosis and medication. Nothing about this negates the 12 steps I have outlined. Alcoholics Anonymous as it exists today is not what it used to be. It started out with people who had lost everything or were about to, people that society had given up on, "low bottom" drunks and the like, people who were desperate to stay alive like Bill himself. Today's AA I'm afraid after all the court ordered people and all the people who use it as a social club because their doctor told them that 4 glasses of wine a day was too much so they should stop. Well, it's too watered down for me and I don't go. I'm not surprised people think it doesn't work. If you want to test this, to a meeting and try to get people to try to talk about how the steps work in their lives and how they recovered and stop using their time as a gripe session and try to find sponsors who will stick to just taking you through the steps and not try to be your therapist. I've seen enough, but ymmv

boplicity 4y ago

The interesting thing about the 12 steps is that, really, they're what many, many people do anyways. Basically, they can be summed up as "take responsibility, get help when you need it, and help others when you can." This is what most emotionally mature adults do anyways. Unfortunately, the disease of alcoholism can lead people quite far from this type of otherwise normal behavior. (And not just for the drinkers!) I wish there was far more education in North America about alcoholism, especially for teenagers and pre-teens. Considering the epidimic level of damage being inflicted by the disease, I don't think it would be unreasonable to have required classes in middle school or high school on the topic.

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago

I like that breakdown. Stealing it...

labrador 4y ago
Great! I was talking to a friend about it and came up with a couple additional thoughts: I always felt hesitant about rewriting Bill Wilson, because he's a Saint to some people, but knew I would someday. I'm aware he's just a guy like me and if he were alive today he'd see the need for it. I think Bill W put too much emphasis on his steps causing a "spiritual awakening" because it set the bar too high. My feeling is that if people quit drinking or drugging or whatever it is that has captured them and do the work of getting better then they will naturally be in better spirits, which is a good enough spiritual awakening. Some will go further and have a Bill Wilson spiritual awakening. All the better.

somewhereoutth 4y ago

However none of that addresses or even attempts to discover the underlying cause(s) of the addiction - instead it assumes it's 'all your fault' and you just need to 'change' to fix it. Perhaps it is external factors that created and continue to drive the addiction (e.g. bad relationships, too much responsibility, unfulfilling work, feeling trapped, boredom, loneliness). Addiction often starts as self medication, before it becomes physical/physiological dependence.

boplicity 4y ago
> instead it assumes it's 'all your fault' Actually, that assumption is very much not part of AA, and very much not part of the 12 steps as they're usually understood. For example, take step 1. "Admit you have a problem." You seem to be saying that admitting a problem is the same as blaming oneself. NOT TRUE. In fact, one of the most important things to acknowledge is that it's not your fault. It's just a disease. And, like any disease, there are idiosyncrasies to treating it that will be different from other diseases.
- somewhereoutth 4y ago
  but 4) 5) 6) are exactly blaming yourself. Indeed, they seem to focus on the bad things you have done (to others) as a result of your addiction, but with nothing about the cause of the addiction itself. Agree with step 1) - and 2) in many cases - but perhaps 3) should be about figuring out what's been behind it and trying to remove that stressor. And then maybe another step can consider the disease paradigm, as a self-reinforcing cycle (failure, self-loathing, self-medication, failure...)
  - boplicity 4y ago
    > 4 - List all the complaints people have about you and analyze what you might be doing wrong That's not blaming yourself for alcoholism, which I think is the point your missing. > 5 - Share your failings, no matter how embarrassing, with a trusted other on the principle that confession is good for the soul and sunlight is the best disinfectant Again, this isn't about blaming yourself for your alcoholism AT ALL. This is about taking responsibility for bad behavior, which is often a very important catalyst for deciding to the the hard work of change. > 6 - Ask yourself if you're really willing to change. That's not a given. Maybe you aren't. Deciding whether or not you're ready to change is certainly not "blaming yourself." Most alcoholics have to spend quite a lot of time forgiving themselves and letting go of blame -- which is, I think, generally very well known to people in recovery communities, but perhaps not as well known outside of them.