4 ms·

Any details you’d be willing to share?

gavinhoward 3y ago
I dare not say much, but I will say that Andrew does not like to be told he is wrong. He told me off when he claimed (on IRC) that you couldn't easily write good hash maps in C, but you could in Zig, and I sent him a link to hash maps I had written in C. Then he proceeded to tell me to stop bothering him. When I started taking apart his claim that Zig does not have function colors, he got mad. Part of that was my fault; I didn't use the best language. But he still refused to acknowledge my arguments until I made a very long, mostly objective blog post about it that went viral. [1] Then, and only then, did he somewhat acknowledge that I was right. [1]: https://gavinhoward.com/2022/04/i-believe-zig-has-function-colors/ https://gavinhoward.com/2022/04/i-believe-zig-has-function-c...
- AndyKelley 3y ago
  Hi Gavin, Do you think you could maybe stop saying nasty things about me in public? I don't appreciate it. I don't agree with your summary of our interactions either. It would be nice if you could just leave me alone. Thanks, Andrew
  - gavinhoward 3y ago
    Hi Andrew, You may not agree. That doesn't matter to me. Is it materially untrue? Does it meet the standard of defamation or harassment? If so, then you have recourse, and I encourage you to take it. If not, and it certainly does not, then I reserve my right to tell my side of every interaction we have. Including this one. Also, labeling what I said as "nasty" is proving my point: you don't take criticism well. I'm not sure what you mean by "leaving you alone." I haven't been harassing you. You are also a public figure now. There are some perks to being one, I'm sure, but there are also tradeoffs. One of those tradeoffs is that people can talk about you in public. And I only gave details when asked. Otherwise, I would have only said that I did not have good experiences interacting with you. So no, I will not stop. Gavin Howard Edit: Made a change to bad wording.
    - grzm 3y ago
      > And I only talked about it when asked. Otherwise, I would have only said that I did not have good experiences interacting with you. Reading this thread, someone commented about his experience (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35505169 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35505169), and you offered your own, unsolicited (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35505919 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35505919). Yes, they then asked for details, which you then provided. But you volunteered your experience. You (nor anyone else) was asked for their experience.
      - gavinhoward 3y ago
        That is true. Now let me ask this: what is wrong with providing what I did?
        grzm 3y ago
        I'm only pointing out the inconsistency in your description of the encounter. Your whole stance here seems to be "I'm just describing facts" when asked to stop, so I would think it's important to you to know when you're apparently not doing so. And even if it is the facts or true, is it important to share your experience? Is it important to counter someone's good experience with your own bad experience? FWIW, I know nothing of Zig or anyone in this thread: hiding behind "it's just the facts" to be unkind I find is unhelpful. ("But I'm not being unkind! We're just having a rational discussion!" I hear you say. I disagree. It's never just that.) Edited to add: I'm leaving this here as-is, but I regret posting it. I should have recognized that this would be fruitless and adds nothing to the thread, and should have never engaged.
        gavinhoward 3y ago
        I've edited my original reply to Andrew. Now it says "give details." Satisfied? > And even if it is the facts or true, is it important to share your experience? Is it important to counter someone's good experience with your own bad experience? Yes. Public figures should never be immune to criticism. > hiding behind "it's just the facts" to be unkind I find is unhelpful. Okay, let's say I'm being unkind. Then you are too because you're criticizing me. Which is fair; you're allowed to. But it's unkind by your own standard, especially if "it's never just that." Just to clarify: I believe that criticizing public figures is not unkind in and of itself.

I dare not say much, but I will say that Andrew does not like to be told he is wrong. He told me off when he claimed (on IRC) that you couldn't easily write good hash maps in C, but you could in Zig, and I sent him a link to hash maps I had written in C. Then he proceeded to tell me to stop bothering him. When I started taking apart his claim that Zig does not have function colors, he got mad. Part of that was my fault; I didn't use the best language. But he still refused to acknowledge my arguments until I made a very long, mostly objective blog post about it that went viral. [1] Then, and only then, did he somewhat acknowledge that I was right. [1]: https://gavinhoward.com/2022/04/i-believe-zig-has-function-colors/ https://gavinhoward.com/2022/04/i-believe-zig-has-function-c...

AndyKelley 3y ago
Hi Gavin, Do you think you could maybe stop saying nasty things about me in public? I don't appreciate it. I don't agree with your summary of our interactions either. It would be nice if you could just leave me alone. Thanks, Andrew
- gavinhoward 3y ago
  Hi Andrew, You may not agree. That doesn't matter to me. Is it materially untrue? Does it meet the standard of defamation or harassment? If so, then you have recourse, and I encourage you to take it. If not, and it certainly does not, then I reserve my right to tell my side of every interaction we have. Including this one. Also, labeling what I said as "nasty" is proving my point: you don't take criticism well. I'm not sure what you mean by "leaving you alone." I haven't been harassing you. You are also a public figure now. There are some perks to being one, I'm sure, but there are also tradeoffs. One of those tradeoffs is that people can talk about you in public. And I only gave details when asked. Otherwise, I would have only said that I did not have good experiences interacting with you. So no, I will not stop. Gavin Howard Edit: Made a change to bad wording.
  - grzm 3y ago
    > And I only talked about it when asked. Otherwise, I would have only said that I did not have good experiences interacting with you. Reading this thread, someone commented about his experience (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35505169 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35505169), and you offered your own, unsolicited (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35505919 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35505919). Yes, they then asked for details, which you then provided. But you volunteered your experience. You (nor anyone else) was asked for their experience.
    - gavinhoward 3y ago
      That is true. Now let me ask this: what is wrong with providing what I did?
      - grzm 3y ago
        I'm only pointing out the inconsistency in your description of the encounter. Your whole stance here seems to be "I'm just describing facts" when asked to stop, so I would think it's important to you to know when you're apparently not doing so. And even if it is the facts or true, is it important to share your experience? Is it important to counter someone's good experience with your own bad experience? FWIW, I know nothing of Zig or anyone in this thread: hiding behind "it's just the facts" to be unkind I find is unhelpful. ("But I'm not being unkind! We're just having a rational discussion!" I hear you say. I disagree. It's never just that.) Edited to add: I'm leaving this here as-is, but I regret posting it. I should have recognized that this would be fruitless and adds nothing to the thread, and should have never engaged.
        gavinhoward 3y ago
        I've edited my original reply to Andrew. Now it says "give details." Satisfied? > And even if it is the facts or true, is it important to share your experience? Is it important to counter someone's good experience with your own bad experience? Yes. Public figures should never be immune to criticism. > hiding behind "it's just the facts" to be unkind I find is unhelpful. Okay, let's say I'm being unkind. Then you are too because you're criticizing me. Which is fair; you're allowed to. But it's unkind by your own standard, especially if "it's never just that." Just to clarify: I believe that criticizing public figures is not unkind in and of itself.