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Such crap, battery power is effectively just exporting pollution to Africa, anyone bothered to research the Lithium mines/processing plants? They are horrificly

Such crap, battery power is effectively just exporting pollution to Africa, anyone bothered to research the Lithium mines/processing plants? They are horrificly polluting.

fauxpause_ 3y ago
Can you share anything on the magnitude of pollution harm from lithium mining vs. coal?
Gigachad 3y ago
What kind of pollution? There are many and they aren’t all equal. And in what quantities per kWh for each type?
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
lithium is mined in US and australia, not so much africa. And, unlike coal, only needs to be mined once
- dsffghfghfghfgh 3y ago
  [Edited my original comment to include processing plants]. There is a secondary stage of processing after extraction which is highly toxic, that is the polluting part. Have a look at the huge tailings dams they set up to hold the toxic waste. These things just kick the can down the road for future generations. They also probably leak into groundwater. Lucky you don't have to drink that water.
  - iknowstuff 3y ago
    infinitely better than putting CO2, particulate matter and carcinogens in the air. And recyclable.
  - panick21_ 3y ago
    Non of the processing plants are in Africa. So I have no idea what you are talking about. There is like 1 lithium mine in Africa and I'm not even sure it produces lithium for batteries. As far as I now not a single lithium refinement facility is in Africa. The waste majority of lithium comes from Australia, China or South America. If you look at industry statistics, 90% of lithium refinement is done in China. Lithium refinement isn't actually that dirty or polluting. Please provide with evidence of what is so bad about it if you want to make that claim. Where in China can people not drink the water because of these plants? I am seriously questioning where you get the data for any of the claims you make. If you want to talk about Africa, the real issue is not lithium but rather cobalt from the Congo. And the issue there is not refining as this is done in China. The issue there is artisanal mines employing children.
    - defrost 3y ago
      For some sound figures, see the 25 years of lithium production graphic here [1] Australia is responsible for twice the seperated end product as Chile which itself produces twice that of China (2021). Half of Australias 55.4 ktonnes of production (REO) comes from Mt Weld ( 240,000 tonnes per annum of ore to produce up to 66,000 tonnes per annum of concentrate containing 26,500 tonnes of REO ) [2]. Mt Weld Australia ships its concentrate to the world’s largest single rare earths processing plant in Malaysia[3]. These figures rather undercut the assertion that: > If you look at industry statistics, 90% of lithium refinement is done in China. Can you link to the "industry statistics" that you are quoting? Thankyou. [1] https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/01/chart-countries-produce-lithium-world/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/01/chart-countries-produ... [2] https://lynasrareearths.com/about-us/locations/mt-weld-western-australia/ https://lynasrareearths.com/about-us/locations/mt-weld-weste... [3] https://lynasrareearths.com/ https://lynasrareearths.com/
      - panick21_ 3y ago
        Its really hard to find stats for refinement. I thought I had seen 90%, but I do not remember where. Your [1] seems to suggest its only 60%. So I might have been wrong on that.
        defrost 3y ago
        My [1] states that : [ China ] also hosts 60% of the world’s lithium refining capacity for batteries. AND states that : Batteries == 74% of total lithium usage So that's 60 % of 74 % of global refining capacity (I'll leave the math for you) That's also a tad out of date as it fails to account for post 2020 refining plants and the coming changes as proposed plants (eg: Musk's super Texas plant) lay ground and get built to start production in (?) near future.
        panick21_ 3y ago
        You need lithium refinement not just for batteries. You don't need lithium as poor for other applications, but its still has to be refined. So its more like 60% of all global lithium refinement. China has less % of that in terms of battery materials production, as that is also very common in South Korea and Japan. > and the coming changes as proposed plants Yeah but its not only the rest of the world that has plans. Lithium refinement capacity in China is also growing. Partly why Tesla is building the refinement plant is because of Chinas dominance.
panick21_ 3y ago
Have you bothered to do it? Africa has almost no lithium mining and as far as I know no lithium refining. There are a bunch of projects in planning stages but few are operating. Can you please link to these African lithium mines and refinement facilities that are so horrible? Are you confused between lithium and cobalt perhaps?

Such crap, battery power is effectively just exporting pollution to Africa, anyone bothered to research the Lithium mines/processing plants? They are horrificly polluting.

fauxpause_ 3y ago

Can you share anything on the magnitude of pollution harm from lithium mining vs. coal?

Gigachad 3y ago

What kind of pollution? There are many and they aren’t all equal. And in what quantities per kWh for each type?

ClumsyPilot 3y ago

lithium is mined in US and australia, not so much africa. And, unlike coal, only needs to be mined once

dsffghfghfghfgh 3y ago
[Edited my original comment to include processing plants]. There is a secondary stage of processing after extraction which is highly toxic, that is the polluting part. Have a look at the huge tailings dams they set up to hold the toxic waste. These things just kick the can down the road for future generations. They also probably leak into groundwater. Lucky you don't have to drink that water.
- iknowstuff 3y ago
  infinitely better than putting CO2, particulate matter and carcinogens in the air. And recyclable.
- panick21_ 3y ago
  Non of the processing plants are in Africa. So I have no idea what you are talking about. There is like 1 lithium mine in Africa and I'm not even sure it produces lithium for batteries. As far as I now not a single lithium refinement facility is in Africa. The waste majority of lithium comes from Australia, China or South America. If you look at industry statistics, 90% of lithium refinement is done in China. Lithium refinement isn't actually that dirty or polluting. Please provide with evidence of what is so bad about it if you want to make that claim. Where in China can people not drink the water because of these plants? I am seriously questioning where you get the data for any of the claims you make. If you want to talk about Africa, the real issue is not lithium but rather cobalt from the Congo. And the issue there is not refining as this is done in China. The issue there is artisanal mines employing children.
  - defrost 3y ago
    For some sound figures, see the 25 years of lithium production graphic here [1] Australia is responsible for twice the seperated end product as Chile which itself produces twice that of China (2021). Half of Australias 55.4 ktonnes of production (REO) comes from Mt Weld ( 240,000 tonnes per annum of ore to produce up to 66,000 tonnes per annum of concentrate containing 26,500 tonnes of REO ) [2]. Mt Weld Australia ships its concentrate to the world’s largest single rare earths processing plant in Malaysia[3]. These figures rather undercut the assertion that: > If you look at industry statistics, 90% of lithium refinement is done in China. Can you link to the "industry statistics" that you are quoting? Thankyou. [1] https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/01/chart-countries-produce-lithium-world/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/01/chart-countries-produ... [2] https://lynasrareearths.com/about-us/locations/mt-weld-western-australia/ https://lynasrareearths.com/about-us/locations/mt-weld-weste... [3] https://lynasrareearths.com/ https://lynasrareearths.com/
    - panick21_ 3y ago
      Its really hard to find stats for refinement. I thought I had seen 90%, but I do not remember where. Your [1] seems to suggest its only 60%. So I might have been wrong on that.
      - defrost 3y ago
        My [1] states that : [ China ] also hosts 60% of the world’s lithium refining capacity for batteries. AND states that : Batteries == 74% of total lithium usage So that's 60 % of 74 % of global refining capacity (I'll leave the math for you) That's also a tad out of date as it fails to account for post 2020 refining plants and the coming changes as proposed plants (eg: Musk's super Texas plant) lay ground and get built to start production in (?) near future.
        panick21_ 3y ago
        You need lithium refinement not just for batteries. You don't need lithium as poor for other applications, but its still has to be refined. So its more like 60% of all global lithium refinement. China has less % of that in terms of battery materials production, as that is also very common in South Korea and Japan. > and the coming changes as proposed plants Yeah but its not only the rest of the world that has plans. Lithium refinement capacity in China is also growing. Partly why Tesla is building the refinement plant is because of Chinas dominance.

panick21_ 3y ago

Have you bothered to do it? Africa has almost no lithium mining and as far as I know no lithium refining. There are a bunch of projects in planning stages but few are operating. Can you please link to these African lithium mines and refinement facilities that are so horrible? Are you confused between lithium and cobalt perhaps?