4 ms·

the current bishop of Rome indeed sees it like that, a little bit. he even sees bishops as some among many important Catholics https://www.synod.va https://w

by froh 4y ago

the current bishop of Rome indeed sees it like that, a little bit. he even sees bishops as some among many important Catholics https://www.synod.va https://www.synod.va wrt free speech I find poppers paradox of intolerance relevant. a unhealthy overdose of Der Stürmer and lashing out against some scapegoat minorities lead Europe into WWII in simple words: you _have_ to put limits on bullshitting else your freedom is shat on.

bradleyjg 4y ago
the current bishop of Rome indeed sees it like that, a little bit Not really. He’s making these pronouncements and reforms. He isn’t deferring to each bishop in their own territory. wrt free speech I find Regardless of what you or I think about this issue there was an organization that stood for one position on it for almost a century. However good the arguments are, I don’t expect the National Pro-Life Religious Council to decide that maybe abortions aren’t so bad after all.
- froh 4y ago
  pp Francis one one hand is strengthening synodality and subsidiarity, i.e. decentralizing "who has the say" and in the other hand he is at the same time limiting divisive occult undercurrents of radical trad caths who are far right infiltrated by divisive neo fascist. so in a way he's is managing "free speech" which is our topic here: how do we establish the rules for speech which support unity and support for our neighbors and which end oppression of weak minorities? which speech rules foster growth and fairness and justice and health for all?
revelio 4y ago
>> a unhealthy overdose of Der Stürmer and lashing out against some scapegoat minorities lead Europe into WWII Except that: 1. Hitler rose to power mostly on the back of widespread civil unrest caused by the conditions placed on Germany for being the loser of WW1. Jews weren't popular anywhere in Europe at that time, anti-semitism was not a uniquely German thing, but Hitler came to power there because the German people could see no way out of the crushing poverty and despair caused by the reparations they were being forced to pay. 2. Germany didn't have strong free speech or political protections in the runup to Hitler taking power which is why a political party was able to have its own shock troops on the street beating up other parties. The first thing Hitler did was get rid of free speech and the free competition of ideas more generally, because the sort of people who hate free speech are exactly those people who are engaged in bullshitting and don't want other people to point it out. If Germany had strong democratic and free speech institutions, and the victors in WW1 had paid more attention to rebuilding Germany in their own image instead of treating it as a loot box, then Hitler would likely never have happened. He'd have been beaten back at the ballot box and become a failed politician of no real note.
- tonfreed 4y ago
  Not to mention a large part of their popularity and support for actions such as the beer hall putsch came from their open opposition to communist violence and intimidation. Amazing how the world has forgotten that part of it, and how in vogue totalitarianism was in the 1930s
- froh 4y ago
  are you just redefining "free speech"? there problem pre 1933 was that Hitler could spread whichever slander he wanted, "free speech", just louder and bullshittier than anybody else. "free bullshitting" because "free speech" and the problem post 1933 was that nobody else was allowed to speak freely any more. and PS: he already started losing at the ballot box. he just FUD-ed the moderate conservatives enough to have ether back.

by froh 4y ago

bradleyjg 4y ago

the current bishop of Rome indeed sees it like that, a little bit Not really. He’s making these pronouncements and reforms. He isn’t deferring to each bishop in their own territory. wrt free speech I find Regardless of what you or I think about this issue there was an organization that stood for one position on it for almost a century. However good the arguments are, I don’t expect the National Pro-Life Religious Council to decide that maybe abortions aren’t so bad after all.

froh 4y ago
pp Francis one one hand is strengthening synodality and subsidiarity, i.e. decentralizing "who has the say" and in the other hand he is at the same time limiting divisive occult undercurrents of radical trad caths who are far right infiltrated by divisive neo fascist. so in a way he's is managing "free speech" which is our topic here: how do we establish the rules for speech which support unity and support for our neighbors and which end oppression of weak minorities? which speech rules foster growth and fairness and justice and health for all?

revelio 4y ago

>> a unhealthy overdose of Der Stürmer and lashing out against some scapegoat minorities lead Europe into WWII Except that: 1. Hitler rose to power mostly on the back of widespread civil unrest caused by the conditions placed on Germany for being the loser of WW1. Jews weren't popular anywhere in Europe at that time, anti-semitism was not a uniquely German thing, but Hitler came to power there because the German people could see no way out of the crushing poverty and despair caused by the reparations they were being forced to pay. 2. Germany didn't have strong free speech or political protections in the runup to Hitler taking power which is why a political party was able to have its own shock troops on the street beating up other parties. The first thing Hitler did was get rid of free speech and the free competition of ideas more generally, because the sort of people who hate free speech are exactly those people who are engaged in bullshitting and don't want other people to point it out. If Germany had strong democratic and free speech institutions, and the victors in WW1 had paid more attention to rebuilding Germany in their own image instead of treating it as a loot box, then Hitler would likely never have happened. He'd have been beaten back at the ballot box and become a failed politician of no real note.

tonfreed 4y ago
Not to mention a large part of their popularity and support for actions such as the beer hall putsch came from their open opposition to communist violence and intimidation. Amazing how the world has forgotten that part of it, and how in vogue totalitarianism was in the 1930s
froh 4y ago
are you just redefining "free speech"? there problem pre 1933 was that Hitler could spread whichever slander he wanted, "free speech", just louder and bullshittier than anybody else. "free bullshitting" because "free speech" and the problem post 1933 was that nobody else was allowed to speak freely any more. and PS: he already started losing at the ballot box. he just FUD-ed the moderate conservatives enough to have ether back.