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> How did you get involved with harm-reduction work? > ... Now, I’m a daily intravenous meth user. I really didn't expect the harm reduction worker to be acti

> How did you get involved with harm-reduction work? > ... Now, I’m a daily intravenous meth user. I really didn't expect the harm reduction worker to be actively addicted.

TylerE 4y ago
You’re implying a reversal of the Norse of events. He was a daily meth user before he was in harm Reduction.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > was a daily meth user before he was in harm Reduction These stories usually feature someone who went clean. That it's someone who still using and contributing to society makes it unexpected. (I hadn’t considered the possibility of a functional meth addict.)
  - TylerE 4y ago
    Plenty of functional Ritalin users. Very similar effect profiles (assuming the meth is clean), since they metabolize to the same thing.
    - CommitSyn 4y ago
      Plenty of functional Adderall users also, which is mixed amphetamine salts. And although more rare, functional desoxyn users too, which is a methamphetamine pill typically used for narcolepsy and severe obesity.
      - htag 4y ago
        How many functional Ritalin/Adderall/Desoxyn users are injecting?
        CommitSyn 4y ago
        Probably as many as functional Tylenol users are injecting. In my meth days I knew of 2 people that injected. It was always smoked or, less commonly, taken orally.
gregwebs 4y ago
That’s the point of harm reduction. If we stop focusing on treating those with drug addictions as criminals, they can potentially contribute to our society instead of having their lives destroyed by criminal convictions and medical issues from unsafe drug usage. Instead of being further cast out of society they can live with some level of dignity even if they cannot overcome their addiction.
cypherpunks01 4y ago
I found it surprising too, on the basis of, it could pose perceived or actual conflicts of interest in their work. And of course the performance and/or liability risk on the org. But you skipped the part of the quote where he's been abusing drugs since age 11 - it'd certainly be more alarming if he was sober but after working at the clinic for a bit, started taking up IV meth. But yes, still surprising, however there are benefits to serving the people that you can relate most to.
polishdude20 4y ago
It's like an obese personal trainer.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > like an obese personal trainer Eh, it's more like an obese doctor treating obese patients. The goal isn't become thin, but to reduce harm. Yes, the doctor should tell the patient they should lose weight. But in cases where that's unrealistic, there are second-best options before abandonment.
onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
Pure Meth isn't that much different than Adderall, and ~7% of the population is using Adderall... Adderall users are doing all kind of productive things in society. Why can't Meth users?
- junofan 4y ago
  7% seems high. Googling shows ~40 million prescriptions dispensed in 2021. Since CSA disallows refills and 90-day fills are extremely rare, that’s about 40/12=3 million patients, or roughly 1–2%.
- fauxpause_ 4y ago
  I would be curious if other knowledgeable folks agree that pure meth isn’t that much different from Adderall on dimensions that are likely to be relevant.
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    There's another ADHD medicine called Desoxyn which is methamphetamine. Adderal is a mix of amphetamine salts, but it's still fair to say they're not very different. The main difference is in the common dosage.
  - CommitSyn 4y ago
    Adderall will have me overly focusing on one thing if I take a bit too much. Meth will have me sitting at the computer for 8 hours knowing I have other obligations if I take a bit too much. I'm also much more distracted and likely to hop to new random things on meth, versus hyper focusing on one thing.
  - fwlr 4y ago
    “Methamphetamine (meth) is a stimulant. The FDA- approved brand-name medication is Desoxyn®.” https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-06/Methamphetamine-2020_0.pdf https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-06/Methamphetam... (pdf) Adderall is regular (non-methylated) amphetamine, specifically a mixture of levo-amphetamine and dextro-amphetamine. There are minor differences in effect profile between methamphetamine and amphetamine, the biggest of these minor differences being in neuroprotectivity (it’s been a while since I’ve done the research but iirc amphetamine is mildly neuroprotective while meth is neutral or mildly negative, due to meth interrupting some metabolizing process). The major difference is that milligram-for-milligram, meth is 2-5x more potent than regular amphetamine. The perception that they are very different is valid, though, because amphetamine is usually consumed therapeutically (lower doses, guaranteed purity, controlled dosing schedule, safer administration route) while meth is usually consumed recreationally (higher doses, unknown and often dubious purity, erratic dosing schedule, riskier administration routes). Injecting a quarter of a gram of street meth over a three day binge is much more harmful than taking 40mg Adderall extended release formulation by mouth every morning.

> How did you get involved with harm-reduction work? > ... Now, I’m a daily intravenous meth user. I really didn't expect the harm reduction worker to be actively addicted.

TylerE 4y ago

You’re implying a reversal of the Norse of events. He was a daily meth user before he was in harm Reduction.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> was a daily meth user before he was in harm Reduction These stories usually feature someone who went clean. That it's someone who still using and contributing to society makes it unexpected. (I hadn’t considered the possibility of a functional meth addict.)
- TylerE 4y ago
  Plenty of functional Ritalin users. Very similar effect profiles (assuming the meth is clean), since they metabolize to the same thing.
  - CommitSyn 4y ago
    Plenty of functional Adderall users also, which is mixed amphetamine salts. And although more rare, functional desoxyn users too, which is a methamphetamine pill typically used for narcolepsy and severe obesity.
    - htag 4y ago
      How many functional Ritalin/Adderall/Desoxyn users are injecting?
      - CommitSyn 4y ago
        Probably as many as functional Tylenol users are injecting. In my meth days I knew of 2 people that injected. It was always smoked or, less commonly, taken orally.

gregwebs 4y ago

That’s the point of harm reduction. If we stop focusing on treating those with drug addictions as criminals, they can potentially contribute to our society instead of having their lives destroyed by criminal convictions and medical issues from unsafe drug usage. Instead of being further cast out of society they can live with some level of dignity even if they cannot overcome their addiction.

cypherpunks01 4y ago

I found it surprising too, on the basis of, it could pose perceived or actual conflicts of interest in their work. And of course the performance and/or liability risk on the org. But you skipped the part of the quote where he's been abusing drugs since age 11 - it'd certainly be more alarming if he was sober but after working at the clinic for a bit, started taking up IV meth. But yes, still surprising, however there are benefits to serving the people that you can relate most to.

polishdude20 4y ago

It's like an obese personal trainer.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> like an obese personal trainer Eh, it's more like an obese doctor treating obese patients. The goal isn't become thin, but to reduce harm. Yes, the doctor should tell the patient they should lose weight. But in cases where that's unrealistic, there are second-best options before abandonment.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago

Pure Meth isn't that much different than Adderall, and ~7% of the population is using Adderall... Adderall users are doing all kind of productive things in society. Why can't Meth users?

junofan 4y ago
7% seems high. Googling shows ~40 million prescriptions dispensed in 2021. Since CSA disallows refills and 90-day fills are extremely rare, that’s about 40/12=3 million patients, or roughly 1–2%.
fauxpause_ 4y ago
I would be curious if other knowledgeable folks agree that pure meth isn’t that much different from Adderall on dimensions that are likely to be relevant.
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  There's another ADHD medicine called Desoxyn which is methamphetamine. Adderal is a mix of amphetamine salts, but it's still fair to say they're not very different. The main difference is in the common dosage.
- CommitSyn 4y ago
  Adderall will have me overly focusing on one thing if I take a bit too much. Meth will have me sitting at the computer for 8 hours knowing I have other obligations if I take a bit too much. I'm also much more distracted and likely to hop to new random things on meth, versus hyper focusing on one thing.
- fwlr 4y ago
  “Methamphetamine (meth) is a stimulant. The FDA- approved brand-name medication is Desoxyn®.” https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-06/Methamphetamine-2020_0.pdf https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-06/Methamphetam... (pdf) Adderall is regular (non-methylated) amphetamine, specifically a mixture of levo-amphetamine and dextro-amphetamine. There are minor differences in effect profile between methamphetamine and amphetamine, the biggest of these minor differences being in neuroprotectivity (it’s been a while since I’ve done the research but iirc amphetamine is mildly neuroprotective while meth is neutral or mildly negative, due to meth interrupting some metabolizing process). The major difference is that milligram-for-milligram, meth is 2-5x more potent than regular amphetamine. The perception that they are very different is valid, though, because amphetamine is usually consumed therapeutically (lower doses, guaranteed purity, controlled dosing schedule, safer administration route) while meth is usually consumed recreationally (higher doses, unknown and often dubious purity, erratic dosing schedule, riskier administration routes). Injecting a quarter of a gram of street meth over a three day binge is much more harmful than taking 40mg Adderall extended release formulation by mouth every morning.