4 ms·

Musk has really hurt the Tesla brand but they are still crushing the competition in the EV space. I keep waiting for one of the legacy brands to compete and th

by jml78 4y ago

Musk has really hurt the Tesla brand but they are still crushing the competition in the EV space. I keep waiting for one of the legacy brands to compete and they keep screwing it up

redeeman 4y ago
so many says that, but does any tesla owner actually think so?
- jml78 4y ago
  I am a Tesla owner but I am not a car guy. I wanted an EV that could replace my ICE vehicle. It is changing but right now, I still wouldn’t consider a non-Tesla vehicle, not because of the cars but the charging network. I have the adapter to charge at CCS1 stations(everyone but Tesla) but they are always broken and not maintained. The charging infrastructure network sucks for everyone but Tesla. The best thing that happened for non-Tesla EVs is Tesla committing to install CCS1 magic docks at new supercharger stations. That is great for them and a negative for Tesla owners.
  - TheHappyOddish 4y ago
    Amusingly, everywhere else in the world Teslas have CCS charging as do most people, and we all carry type 2 adapters for non CCS charging stations.
heresie-dabord 4y ago
> legacy brands [...] keep screwing it up Mr Musk is not doing his own "legacy" any favours. Maybe he is subverting his own reality-distortion field. But I admit it, you have "nerd-sniped" me. According to this report, global EV sales are about 10% of vehicle sales. (https://insideevs.com/news/651978/world-top-ev-oem-sales-2022q4/ https://insideevs.com/news/651978/world-top-ev-oem-sales-202...) So who is selling all the vehicles in the world? Ford, Toyota, and GM are the leaders. ("Legacy"...) (https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2022-us-vehicle-sales-figures-by-brand/ https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2022-us-vehicle-sales-figures-...) The EV market has grown but it is still small. Tesla has a big piece of a small market. Tesla is leading in this small market, but there is no way that Tesla can put as many cars on the road as some of the "legacy" manufacturers. The company is constrained by capacity, by cost demographic, and by electrical infrastructure. Sales may also be affected by the antics of Elon Musk. As for the "legacy" manufacturers right now, Ford, GM, Toyota, Hyundai, and Kia sell respectable BEVs. GM had the Volt PHEV and then discontinued it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt). By all reports, the car was a winner. "Until December 2018, the Volt/Ampera family of vehicles was the world's all-time bestselling plug-in hybrid vehicle. As of December 2019, the Chevrolet Volt is listed as the all-time top-selling plug-in hybrid in the American market." Then GM made exploding Bolts, unfortunately... We can reasonably say that the hybrid solution is still a good solution for many buyers. So Toyota hasn't been wrong. Also keep some doubt in mind about laws being passed in some large markets that aim to constrain and eventually eliminate sales of ICE vehicles. It's reasonable to be skeptical about the economics of such laws. EU manufacturers are trying (and succeeding) to include some form of ICE in the legal framework of future transportation. It would not surprise a skeptical observer to see them succeed in the end. (https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-proposes-exception-e-fuel-combustion-engines-2035-2023-03-21/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-pro...) Ford now makes few passenger cars. The Mach-E is selling a fraction of Tesla sales but reviews suggest that the Mach-E is a good vehicle. (https://fordauthority.com/2023/02/ford-mustang-mach-e-sales-trail-model-y-beat-id-4-in-2022/ https://fordauthority.com/2023/02/ford-mustang-mach-e-sales-...) (https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a42409121/ford-number-two-in-ev-sales-in-2022-behind-tesla/ https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a42409121/ford-n...) The F150 Lightning was not priced realistically at the outset (perhaps for marketing reasons). It is hard to see people outside the North American market buying many F-150 Lightnings. (https://www.theverge.com/2022/12/17/23514435/ford-electric-f-150-lightning-price-increase https://www.theverge.com/2022/12/17/23514435/ford-electric-f...) Toyota has debuted a BEV and has the depth to gain more of the market. Its BEV is #2 in Norway, for example. Toyota is selling more models and roughly three times more vehicles than Tesla. Its PHEVs have been successful. Toyota can recover in the US BEV market... It might help if Toyota found a name more appealing than "bZ4X" for its first large-battery BEV. Then there was the problem with the wheels not staying on... Oops. (https://jalopnik.com/toyota-only-expects-to-sell-10-000-bz4xs-this-year-1850030534 https://jalopnik.com/toyota-only-expects-to-sell-10-000-bz4x...)

by jml78 4y ago

Musk has really hurt the Tesla brand but they are still crushing the competition in the EV space. I keep waiting for one of the legacy brands to compete and they keep screwing it up

redeeman 4y ago

so many says that, but does any tesla owner actually think so?

jml78 4y ago
I am a Tesla owner but I am not a car guy. I wanted an EV that could replace my ICE vehicle. It is changing but right now, I still wouldn’t consider a non-Tesla vehicle, not because of the cars but the charging network. I have the adapter to charge at CCS1 stations(everyone but Tesla) but they are always broken and not maintained. The charging infrastructure network sucks for everyone but Tesla. The best thing that happened for non-Tesla EVs is Tesla committing to install CCS1 magic docks at new supercharger stations. That is great for them and a negative for Tesla owners.
- TheHappyOddish 4y ago
  Amusingly, everywhere else in the world Teslas have CCS charging as do most people, and we all carry type 2 adapters for non CCS charging stations.

heresie-dabord 4y ago

> legacy brands [...] keep screwing it up Mr Musk is not doing his own "legacy" any favours. Maybe he is subverting his own reality-distortion field. But I admit it, you have "nerd-sniped" me. According to this report, global EV sales are about 10% of vehicle sales. (https://insideevs.com/news/651978/world-top-ev-oem-sales-2022q4/ https://insideevs.com/news/651978/world-top-ev-oem-sales-202...) So who is selling all the vehicles in the world? Ford, Toyota, and GM are the leaders. ("Legacy"...) (https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2022-us-vehicle-sales-figures-by-brand/ https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2022-us-vehicle-sales-figures-...) The EV market has grown but it is still small. Tesla has a big piece of a small market. Tesla is leading in this small market, but there is no way that Tesla can put as many cars on the road as some of the "legacy" manufacturers. The company is constrained by capacity, by cost demographic, and by electrical infrastructure. Sales may also be affected by the antics of Elon Musk. As for the "legacy" manufacturers right now, Ford, GM, Toyota, Hyundai, and Kia sell respectable BEVs. GM had the Volt PHEV and then discontinued it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt). By all reports, the car was a winner. "Until December 2018, the Volt/Ampera family of vehicles was the world's all-time bestselling plug-in hybrid vehicle. As of December 2019, the Chevrolet Volt is listed as the all-time top-selling plug-in hybrid in the American market." Then GM made exploding Bolts, unfortunately... We can reasonably say that the hybrid solution is still a good solution for many buyers. So Toyota hasn't been wrong. Also keep some doubt in mind about laws being passed in some large markets that aim to constrain and eventually eliminate sales of ICE vehicles. It's reasonable to be skeptical about the economics of such laws. EU manufacturers are trying (and succeeding) to include some form of ICE in the legal framework of future transportation. It would not surprise a skeptical observer to see them succeed in the end. (https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-proposes-exception-e-fuel-combustion-engines-2035-2023-03-21/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/eu-pro...) Ford now makes few passenger cars. The Mach-E is selling a fraction of Tesla sales but reviews suggest that the Mach-E is a good vehicle. (https://fordauthority.com/2023/02/ford-mustang-mach-e-sales-trail-model-y-beat-id-4-in-2022/ https://fordauthority.com/2023/02/ford-mustang-mach-e-sales-...) (https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a42409121/ford-number-two-in-ev-sales-in-2022-behind-tesla/ https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a42409121/ford-n...) The F150 Lightning was not priced realistically at the outset (perhaps for marketing reasons). It is hard to see people outside the North American market buying many F-150 Lightnings. (https://www.theverge.com/2022/12/17/23514435/ford-electric-f-150-lightning-price-increase https://www.theverge.com/2022/12/17/23514435/ford-electric-f...) Toyota has debuted a BEV and has the depth to gain more of the market. Its BEV is #2 in Norway, for example. Toyota is selling more models and roughly three times more vehicles than Tesla. Its PHEVs have been successful. Toyota can recover in the US BEV market... It might help if Toyota found a name more appealing than "bZ4X" for its first large-battery BEV. Then there was the problem with the wheels not staying on... Oops. (https://jalopnik.com/toyota-only-expects-to-sell-10-000-bz4xs-this-year-1850030534 https://jalopnik.com/toyota-only-expects-to-sell-10-000-bz4x...)