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The CCP has never governed Taiwan, but Macron wants to give it to them. Does he want to give Ukraine to Russia to or is there a double standard?
by labrador 4y ago
The CCP has never governed Taiwan, but Macron wants to give it to them. Does he want to give Ukraine to Russia to or is there a double standard?
- mytailorisrich 4y agoThat's a non-argument and moreover, and more importantly, Macron never said or implied that. Having productive relations with China does not imply agreeing to a forceful takeover of Taiwan.
- paulddraper 4y agoWhat about "productive relations with Russia"?
- labrador 4y ago> Macron never said or implied that Not helping the US defend Taiwan implies Macron accedes to the CCP's wish to govern it. That's why they are happy. Or are you being deliberately obtuse?
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago> Having productive relations with China does not imply agreeing to a forceful takeover of Taiwan It makes decoupling harder. Merkel said the same about Moscow. (To be clear, I do not believe we are at the point of decoupling from China. But in our needs for decoupling, there is trans-Atlantic alignment, which makes me skeptical of someone arguing for greater ties with China on a sovereignty-from-America line.)
- mytailorisrich 4y agoThere is no need for 'decoupling'. In fact, Macron and the EU (through Von Der Layen) have just rejected that stance during their trip to China. This is actually what this is about: 'decoupling' is an American stance aimed at helping American interests. And so 'sovereignty from America' is indeed rejecting that stance if it does not fit your own interests. More broadly, with China and Ukraine, those being the most salient issues, the US have pushed their interests at the expense of Europe. Macron is sending a very unsubtle hint that they can follow so far (and don't get him started on the little Australian subs issue...)
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago> 'decoupling' is an American stance targeted at helping American interests Nobody is advocating decoupling right now, just being mindful of decoupling risk. If Xi invades Taiwan tomorrow, Washington deploys the Russia playbook. The parts of the French economy that depend on China would overnight have to deal with sanctions compliance, payment risk, write downs and freezes. Having your ally’s economy go depression at the outset of conflict isn’t helpful. > the US have pushed their interests at the expense of Europe Europe pushed for tougher actions on Russian oil and gas than Biden wanted. Reality is more complicated than a one liner.
- mytailorisrich 4y agoI agree that the US are powerful enough to bully everyone else. Up to a point.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago> the US are powerful enough to bully everyone else. Up to a point This is an adversarial model of international relations. It’s dated to the imperial era. One can model any countries’ relationships with it. (It’s vaguely tautological.) And it will make them all sound imperial. (For example, France with her former colonies. Or Norway with Denmark: they’re nice because it is below the limit of what they will tolerate from one another.) For sake of argument, let’s embrace this flawed model. Using its lingo, the entire point of this discussion is whether that point of decoupling is before or after Beijing invades Taiwan. Whether France has the strength to stand up, or is constrained in its policy options in response to an invasion.
- mytailorisrich 4y agoI an just stating facts and the way the US, and others, operate according to their relative strength. I am hoping France has the strength to stand up for itself.
- 4y ago
- blibble 4y agoMacron wants whatever will allow him to sell weapons to Russia and China again