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Off-topic: Is there a correlation between Gen-Z and Pro-Unions? It’s just an obversarion I have, but it seems like the younger generation is pro-union and was

Off-topic: Is there a correlation between Gen-Z and Pro-Unions? It’s just an obversarion I have, but it seems like the younger generation is pro-union and was wondering if it’s just my imagination.

capableweb 4y ago
As everything, it goes in waves. The first people who were pro-union, were the ones who had 6-day work weeks, probably started working when they were ~13 years old (at least in the country where I was born) and had basically no work safety at all. Generation after generation got better and better working conditions, until modern times where many don't see what a union would even do for you. Probably lots of unions are riding their history as well, and have become complacent. But the more workplaces start abusing their employees, the more pro-union workers become. So that's what we're seeing today, people don't start to become pro-union just because.
- alberth 4y ago
  > But the more workplaces start abusing their employees It’s hard to characterize these white collar jobs with great benefits, as being abusive. It’s not like these workers are in coil mines 15-hours/day making below minimum wage. They are working in an ultra luxury retail store selling premium devices.
  - vuln 4y ago
    > It’s not like these workers are in coil mines 15-hours/day making below minimum wage. No but with the advent of communication devices beepers, mobile phones, mobile computers, etc the typical office worker can be reach and in some situations is expected to be reached and respond _27/4_ in a salary type position (I’m not saying this is the 100% norm, no is it abused by every employer). Coal miners don’t have the luxury of a _connected_ job.
    - rvnx 4y ago
      > No but with the advent of communication devices beepers, mobile phones, mobile computers, etc the typical office worker can be reach and in some situations is expected to be reached and respond _27/4_ Sounds very unlikely that Apple store employees get paged at night :/
      - capableweb 4y ago
        Managers be managers, no matter if it's in retail, software or warehouses, no matter if it's Apple, Toy'r'Us or whatever. If they have something they consider an emergency and have your personal phone number, it's not super uncommon to be contacted by your boss outside of regular working hours. Repeating what last commentator said, not every boss is like this, obviously. But if you ask around in your circles (outside of software), then you'll see it's not super uncommon either.
  - lostlogin 4y ago
    Many professions have unions, eg doctors. Whether or not your job is dangerous and physical, collective bargaining is a powerful tool thats challenges the inherent power of the employer.
  - fatneckbeard 4y ago
    working retail during the pandemic meant risking death. a lot of retail workers died. the fact they weren't coal miners doesn't mean they didn't die from their work.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - brightlancer 4y ago
      > working retail during the pandemic meant risking death. a lot of retail workers died. I've not read about such a correlation; age and obesity had high correlations but I hadn't seen such for retail workers. Do you have a source?
      - fatneckbeard 4y ago
        its common sense and you just proved it. poor people have shitty health. retail workers are poor. i.e. retail workers have shitty health. without any additional correlation you have that by definition.
  - bluefirebrand 4y ago
    Retail is never cushy, no matter what you're selling. You're always viewed as a low value employee and very replaceable which justifies offering really low pay and low benefits, if any. Not to mention many customers of retail stores behave outrageously badly, and as the front line staff you're going to bear the brunt of it.
uni_rule 4y ago
Anecdotally yes. It underlies the broader sense of hopelessness and pessimism a lot of people in this generation feel in terms of never being able to afford things like housing. Going from "why can't I afford to live anywhere?" to "maybe I should try to organize" is not a particularly hard jump to make if you already feel so hopeless in your ability to move up by other means. Especially in modern retail / restaurant jobs, they're fucking brutal for the pittance they try to pay out. Really no wonder organizing feels like the only outlet to improve those jobs in particular considering how those companies like to treat their "peons". For hard numbers, a Gallup Poll made in the last year shows 71 percent of all Americans approve of labor unions more generally, the highest it's been since the twilight of the New Deal Coalition in the mid 1960s. Source: https://news.gallup.com/poll/398303/approval-labor-unions-highest-point-1965.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/398303/approval-labor-unions-hi...

capableweb 4y ago

As everything, it goes in waves. The first people who were pro-union, were the ones who had 6-day work weeks, probably started working when they were ~13 years old (at least in the country where I was born) and had basically no work safety at all. Generation after generation got better and better working conditions, until modern times where many don't see what a union would even do for you. Probably lots of unions are riding their history as well, and have become complacent. But the more workplaces start abusing their employees, the more pro-union workers become. So that's what we're seeing today, people don't start to become pro-union just because.

alberth 4y ago
> But the more workplaces start abusing their employees It’s hard to characterize these white collar jobs with great benefits, as being abusive. It’s not like these workers are in coil mines 15-hours/day making below minimum wage. They are working in an ultra luxury retail store selling premium devices.
- vuln 4y ago
  > It’s not like these workers are in coil mines 15-hours/day making below minimum wage. No but with the advent of communication devices beepers, mobile phones, mobile computers, etc the typical office worker can be reach and in some situations is expected to be reached and respond _27/4_ in a salary type position (I’m not saying this is the 100% norm, no is it abused by every employer). Coal miners don’t have the luxury of a _connected_ job.
  - rvnx 4y ago
    > No but with the advent of communication devices beepers, mobile phones, mobile computers, etc the typical office worker can be reach and in some situations is expected to be reached and respond _27/4_ Sounds very unlikely that Apple store employees get paged at night :/
    - capableweb 4y ago
      Managers be managers, no matter if it's in retail, software or warehouses, no matter if it's Apple, Toy'r'Us or whatever. If they have something they consider an emergency and have your personal phone number, it's not super uncommon to be contacted by your boss outside of regular working hours. Repeating what last commentator said, not every boss is like this, obviously. But if you ask around in your circles (outside of software), then you'll see it's not super uncommon either.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  Many professions have unions, eg doctors. Whether or not your job is dangerous and physical, collective bargaining is a powerful tool thats challenges the inherent power of the employer.
- fatneckbeard 4y ago
  working retail during the pandemic meant risking death. a lot of retail workers died. the fact they weren't coal miners doesn't mean they didn't die from their work.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - brightlancer 4y ago
    > working retail during the pandemic meant risking death. a lot of retail workers died. I've not read about such a correlation; age and obesity had high correlations but I hadn't seen such for retail workers. Do you have a source?
    - fatneckbeard 4y ago
      its common sense and you just proved it. poor people have shitty health. retail workers are poor. i.e. retail workers have shitty health. without any additional correlation you have that by definition.
- bluefirebrand 4y ago
  Retail is never cushy, no matter what you're selling. You're always viewed as a low value employee and very replaceable which justifies offering really low pay and low benefits, if any. Not to mention many customers of retail stores behave outrageously badly, and as the front line staff you're going to bear the brunt of it.

uni_rule 4y ago

Anecdotally yes. It underlies the broader sense of hopelessness and pessimism a lot of people in this generation feel in terms of never being able to afford things like housing. Going from "why can't I afford to live anywhere?" to "maybe I should try to organize" is not a particularly hard jump to make if you already feel so hopeless in your ability to move up by other means. Especially in modern retail / restaurant jobs, they're fucking brutal for the pittance they try to pay out. Really no wonder organizing feels like the only outlet to improve those jobs in particular considering how those companies like to treat their "peons". For hard numbers, a Gallup Poll made in the last year shows 71 percent of all Americans approve of labor unions more generally, the highest it's been since the twilight of the New Deal Coalition in the mid 1960s. Source: https://news.gallup.com/poll/398303/approval-labor-unions-highest-point-1965.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/398303/approval-labor-unions-hi...