7 ms·

>Everything it reads is mapped into language, not concept space Umm I'm pretty sure it's discovered concepts through compressing text - it seems perfectly capa

>Everything it reads is mapped into language, not concept space Umm I'm pretty sure it's discovered concepts through compressing text - it seems perfectly capable of generalizing concepts

groffee 4y ago
[dead]
musha68k 4y ago
Would be interesting to read some unbiased science on that. My hunch would be that any concept it might detect still depends on 2nd order patterns acquired through training? The ultimate “book smart” at best, basically. I’m not a ML scientist though, again would be interesting to read an unbiased evaluation of those aspects. Edit: downvoted, not sure why though. Isn’t this a valid question a lot of non-ML folks would ask themselves?
smoldesu 4y ago
Text compression isn't a deterministic process, unfortunately. It's "concept" of compression is clearly derived from token sampling, in the same way it's concept of "math" is based on guessing the number/token that comes next. While I do agree that ChatGPT exhibits pattern-recognizing qualities, that's basically what it was built to do. I'm not arguing against emergent properties, just against emergent intelligence or even the idea of "understanding" in the first place.
mdp2021 4y ago
> it seems perfectly capable of generalizing concepts How would you support that perception?
- firatsarlar 4y ago
  With hope and living? It is a dream come true for people. An abstract perception of a knowledge, is like sniffing a rose. It feels, yes, I get there. This 40.000 pages book, woow, I'll make time to live it or sniff another daisy?!
  - mdp2021 4y ago
    > It is a dream come true for people For as long as they will be an active part of societies, they'll better live in reality. We need to know what we are dealing with factually, because water is not exchangeable with iron in practice. The perception of a machine as being able «to generalize concepts» may be an illusion, so it requires some support: we want to avoid illusions for the contextual purposes.
    - firatsarlar 4y ago
      Let go , make the context further with words , yourself -society- Write books 1000 pages. Force child to read - lucky ones-, make things harder for everyone.
      - mdp2021 4y ago
        But you are out of context. A box was created that outputs statements: either it has a «concept space» or just works through constructing plausible language. The poster claims leaning towards the "«concept space»" possibility - but this should not be a poll, and indications of "why" (such idea) are needed not to make the claim intellectually sterile. It is important otherwise the users of the box may cling to an illusion - that is not advisable. Words are there as a commodity to transfer intellectual states, a dynamic we need for practical and social achievements - otherwise, surrounded by indigence and unaware butchers, "«things [will be] harder for everyone»".
        firatsarlar 4y ago
        I feel where you want to point me, prev. disc.ns Lets say terms, a dict. And meaning. And pick a cult, say, bjokins, a tribe with 100-500 people, from future, say 7000, year 7866 and say a term, "nunu dumdum" => love and move furter, nunu dumdum as term, should be changed or altered, and lets put nuu dumdum in context of our projection and start to define it, and check perception, you need a community first - tribe- then you need facts to describe this term: lets use it in a sentence, nunu dumdum, ikta pqio => love, life we made a sentence, barely and a new term lets define in context to people in tribe the point is , where would we go ikta pqio ousudum, nunu dumdum=> life must desired, and loved canwe see where r we..

>Everything it reads is mapped into language, not concept space Umm I'm pretty sure it's discovered concepts through compressing text - it seems perfectly capable of generalizing concepts

groffee 4y ago

[dead]

musha68k 4y ago

Would be interesting to read some unbiased science on that. My hunch would be that any concept it might detect still depends on 2nd order patterns acquired through training? The ultimate “book smart” at best, basically. I’m not a ML scientist though, again would be interesting to read an unbiased evaluation of those aspects. Edit: downvoted, not sure why though. Isn’t this a valid question a lot of non-ML folks would ask themselves?

smoldesu 4y ago

Text compression isn't a deterministic process, unfortunately. It's "concept" of compression is clearly derived from token sampling, in the same way it's concept of "math" is based on guessing the number/token that comes next. While I do agree that ChatGPT exhibits pattern-recognizing qualities, that's basically what it was built to do. I'm not arguing against emergent properties, just against emergent intelligence or even the idea of "understanding" in the first place.

mdp2021 4y ago

> it seems perfectly capable of generalizing concepts How would you support that perception?

firatsarlar 4y ago
With hope and living? It is a dream come true for people. An abstract perception of a knowledge, is like sniffing a rose. It feels, yes, I get there. This 40.000 pages book, woow, I'll make time to live it or sniff another daisy?!
- mdp2021 4y ago
  > It is a dream come true for people For as long as they will be an active part of societies, they'll better live in reality. We need to know what we are dealing with factually, because water is not exchangeable with iron in practice. The perception of a machine as being able «to generalize concepts» may be an illusion, so it requires some support: we want to avoid illusions for the contextual purposes.
  - firatsarlar 4y ago
    Let go , make the context further with words , yourself -society- Write books 1000 pages. Force child to read - lucky ones-, make things harder for everyone.
    - mdp2021 4y ago
      But you are out of context. A box was created that outputs statements: either it has a «concept space» or just works through constructing plausible language. The poster claims leaning towards the "«concept space»" possibility - but this should not be a poll, and indications of "why" (such idea) are needed not to make the claim intellectually sterile. It is important otherwise the users of the box may cling to an illusion - that is not advisable. Words are there as a commodity to transfer intellectual states, a dynamic we need for practical and social achievements - otherwise, surrounded by indigence and unaware butchers, "«things [will be] harder for everyone»".
      - firatsarlar 4y ago
        I feel where you want to point me, prev. disc.ns Lets say terms, a dict. And meaning. And pick a cult, say, bjokins, a tribe with 100-500 people, from future, say 7000, year 7866 and say a term, "nunu dumdum" => love and move furter, nunu dumdum as term, should be changed or altered, and lets put nuu dumdum in context of our projection and start to define it, and check perception, you need a community first - tribe- then you need facts to describe this term: lets use it in a sentence, nunu dumdum, ikta pqio => love, life we made a sentence, barely and a new term lets define in context to people in tribe the point is , where would we go ikta pqio ousudum, nunu dumdum=> life must desired, and loved canwe see where r we..