4 ms·

It’s always been obvious to me that for all these corporations with the loud progressive “values”, it’s all marketing, they have no values and it’s all bullshit

It’s always been obvious to me that for all these corporations with the loud progressive “values”, it’s all marketing, they have no values and it’s all bullshit. So satisfying watching them be forced to take the mask off in public view for once.

kevingadd 4y ago
Apple has ended up having to go mask off in some other recent legal struggles as well - their decision to describe itch.io as a source for 'unspeakable games' in an attempt to win points against Epic is a good example of how they haven't changed their stripes since the old days when you were banned from including religious or sexual themes of any kind on the App Store, even stuff as mundane as 'my project gutenberg app allows you to read the Kama Sutra'. In general all of these big companies only hold progressive values if it's profitable to do so. You'll see rainbow-colored logos on big corporate campuses but when it's time to censor or surveil minority groups for the government they all line up.
abirch 4y ago
There is a spectrum of progressive values. Like business leaders can be pro-marriage equality but not be pro-union, like there are union members who aren't pro-LGBTQ.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  That's not a spectrum, they are separate and non-contradictory ideas. They might exist along a spectrum of progressiveness, but the point the parent made is that money triumphs over them all. It triumphed over privacy, it triumphed over freedom, and it's capable of a lot worse if we don't legally obligate these companies to act right.
  - abirch 4y ago
    The parent appeared to show hypocrisy because the businesses espoused certain separate non-contradictory ideas and not others. The businesses were never pro-union as far as I can see; so I'm missing the hypocrisy. Apple is definitely pro-LGBT, so trying to diminish their progressive values such as gay rights seems wrong.
    - user3939382 4y ago
      It's not "hypocrisy" it's lying. They pretend to care about x, y, and z and they don't and never did. It's marketing, it's a lie. Usually they have plausible deniability. In the case of giving a shit about their workers, they don't because they have to publicly fight unionization to have any hope of slowing or stopping it.
      - abirch 4y ago
        When did Apple ever pretend to care about supporting unions?
        user3939382 4y ago
        They, like many companies, pretend to care about their workers. They, like many companies, don’t. They care about profit, period. Neither do they care about the environment, gay rights, privacy, or whatever other issue they pretend to care about.
        MichaelZuo 4y ago
        This seems like two users talking past each other. How about reframing it : Companies can not 'care' about anything because companies are legal vehicles that do not have agency. The individual people that make up the company obviously care about these things to varying extents. I highly doubt it's literally zero for any company >100 employees. Although it's theoretically possible for all the 'care' to perfectly cancel each other out (e.g. half the employees for and half against something) it seems unlikely in Apple's case.
        user3939382 4y ago
        If you look at other posts by this user, they’re convinced Apple has real values beyond profit. I don’t think it does. Values are a marketing tool. If it was legal and they could profit $300M by killing thousands of people they would do it. Go read about the nervous systems of people failing from the solvents they use the clean the phone screens on the assembly lines. You think Tim Cook is up at night worrying about these people? He’s not.
- lozenge 4y ago
  Apple being pro-marriage equality doesn't affect anything.
  - richwater 4y ago
    I bet it matters to the employees who are not straight.
    - lozenge 4y ago
      Not if they and managers follow the law on discrimination in the workplace.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      As a gay person, I'd sleep easier if Apple focused on not supporting Chinese genocide and left the marriage equality stuff to the government. Just my personal opinion though, of course.
rqtwteye 4y ago
It’s pretty simple. They embrace whatever makes more profit or supplies cheaper workers. A few weeks ago I listened to the CEO of my company. He went on and on about diversity. Then somebody asked about how the yearly merit increases would compensate for inflation. He rambled a little about the difficult competitive space and then started another monologue about diversity.

kevingadd 4y ago

Apple has ended up having to go mask off in some other recent legal struggles as well - their decision to describe itch.io as a source for 'unspeakable games' in an attempt to win points against Epic is a good example of how they haven't changed their stripes since the old days when you were banned from including religious or sexual themes of any kind on the App Store, even stuff as mundane as 'my project gutenberg app allows you to read the Kama Sutra'. In general all of these big companies only hold progressive values if it's profitable to do so. You'll see rainbow-colored logos on big corporate campuses but when it's time to censor or surveil minority groups for the government they all line up.

abirch 4y ago

There is a spectrum of progressive values. Like business leaders can be pro-marriage equality but not be pro-union, like there are union members who aren't pro-LGBTQ.

smoldesu 4y ago
That's not a spectrum, they are separate and non-contradictory ideas. They might exist along a spectrum of progressiveness, but the point the parent made is that money triumphs over them all. It triumphed over privacy, it triumphed over freedom, and it's capable of a lot worse if we don't legally obligate these companies to act right.
- abirch 4y ago
  The parent appeared to show hypocrisy because the businesses espoused certain separate non-contradictory ideas and not others. The businesses were never pro-union as far as I can see; so I'm missing the hypocrisy. Apple is definitely pro-LGBT, so trying to diminish their progressive values such as gay rights seems wrong.
  - user3939382 4y ago
    It's not "hypocrisy" it's lying. They pretend to care about x, y, and z and they don't and never did. It's marketing, it's a lie. Usually they have plausible deniability. In the case of giving a shit about their workers, they don't because they have to publicly fight unionization to have any hope of slowing or stopping it.
    - abirch 4y ago
      When did Apple ever pretend to care about supporting unions?
      - user3939382 4y ago
        They, like many companies, pretend to care about their workers. They, like many companies, don’t. They care about profit, period. Neither do they care about the environment, gay rights, privacy, or whatever other issue they pretend to care about.
        MichaelZuo 4y ago
        This seems like two users talking past each other. How about reframing it : Companies can not 'care' about anything because companies are legal vehicles that do not have agency. The individual people that make up the company obviously care about these things to varying extents. I highly doubt it's literally zero for any company >100 employees. Although it's theoretically possible for all the 'care' to perfectly cancel each other out (e.g. half the employees for and half against something) it seems unlikely in Apple's case.
        user3939382 4y ago
        If you look at other posts by this user, they’re convinced Apple has real values beyond profit. I don’t think it does. Values are a marketing tool. If it was legal and they could profit $300M by killing thousands of people they would do it. Go read about the nervous systems of people failing from the solvents they use the clean the phone screens on the assembly lines. You think Tim Cook is up at night worrying about these people? He’s not.
lozenge 4y ago
Apple being pro-marriage equality doesn't affect anything.
- richwater 4y ago
  I bet it matters to the employees who are not straight.
  - lozenge 4y ago
    Not if they and managers follow the law on discrimination in the workplace.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    As a gay person, I'd sleep easier if Apple focused on not supporting Chinese genocide and left the marriage equality stuff to the government. Just my personal opinion though, of course.

rqtwteye 4y ago

It’s pretty simple. They embrace whatever makes more profit or supplies cheaper workers. A few weeks ago I listened to the CEO of my company. He went on and on about diversity. Then somebody asked about how the yearly merit increases would compensate for inflation. He rambled a little about the difficult competitive space and then started another monologue about diversity.