4 ms·

I don't know why people put any stock in this index, the methodology seems flawed. They say that Ada's rating is double that of TypeScript, surely that doesn't

I don't know why people put any stock in this index, the methodology seems flawed. They say that Ada's rating is double that of TypeScript, surely that doesn't reflect reality in the slightest?

kortex 4y ago
Tons of folks in industry use Ada, they just don't talk about it much (or are forbidden). Ada is the darling of USDOD, so there's untold LoC in missiles, fighter jets, and spy satellites.
- deleted 4y ago
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- colechristensen 4y ago
  Yup i did some Ada work in a lockheed internship in college. Was for various things on a plane being sold to another country. Not classified but plenty of things around me were (of course nobody gave me any classified information but everybody walked around with their clearance level on their employee badge and the broad strokes of what other programs were isn’t classified, for example lots of F-35 work was being done in the building)
  - Rochus 4y ago
    Isn't the F-35 also famous for the fact that they used C++ (instead of Ada) for the software?
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- lolinder 4y ago
  Based on what I understand of the rating methodology, though, I'm still very surprised that Ada beats TypeScript. My understanding is that it's basically a measure of search results, and I would expect TypeScript to have vastly more of those than Ada, given that most Ada applications aren't going to be publicly discussed. I suspect that it has to do with names—Ada is highly overloaded in ways that are adjacent to programming (ADA, Ada Lovelace) and is a short enough word that Google may ignore it. A naive search for `ada programming` turns up 896 million results, compared to 28 million for `typescript programming`
  - fabiospampinato 4y ago
    Exactly, Ada is searched for 2x as much as TS? No way.
Atlas22 4y ago
Although my intuition would seem to agree with you, Ada is still heavily used in industries where programming errors are fatal like avionics, medical devices, military, space, automotive. None of these industries typically like to operate in public view so I believe there is a reasonable argument that Ada may even be underrepresented in most indexes.
klyrs 4y ago
TIOBE has always been flawed; it doesn't claim to be perfect. It's an interesting metric, and deeply unpopular languages don't make the cut. Once-popular Pascal has been plummeting in recent years. That said, their chart has a particularly unsettling feature: the SQL line is dead flat from early 2004 to 2018.
- 7thaccount 4y ago
  Yeah...I think you'd expect it to grow a good bit during that time frame, unless it's heavily normalized somehow.
stephc_int13 4y ago
I don't know what is the methodology behind the TIOBE rating but what is clear is that a lot of stuff happens below the radar of the average silicon valley dev. Most software is not user facing.
- duskwuff 4y ago
  The TIOBE index is effectively just based on the number of estimated hits for "$LANGUAGE programming" on Google. That's it. It's not based on actual usage, or interest, and certainly not importance; it's just counting search results. (They actually search on a few sites other than Google, but they're bizarrely chosen -- they include search hits on Walmart and Etsy, for example. And the way they weight search results effectively means that the wildly inflated Google search result counts dominate the ranking.)
deleted 4y ago
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I don't know why people put any stock in this index, the methodology seems flawed. They say that Ada's rating is double that of TypeScript, surely that doesn't reflect reality in the slightest?

kortex 4y ago

Tons of folks in industry use Ada, they just don't talk about it much (or are forbidden). Ada is the darling of USDOD, so there's untold LoC in missiles, fighter jets, and spy satellites.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
colechristensen 4y ago
Yup i did some Ada work in a lockheed internship in college. Was for various things on a plane being sold to another country. Not classified but plenty of things around me were (of course nobody gave me any classified information but everybody walked around with their clearance level on their employee badge and the broad strokes of what other programs were isn’t classified, for example lots of F-35 work was being done in the building)
- Rochus 4y ago
  Isn't the F-35 also famous for the fact that they used C++ (instead of Ada) for the software?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lolinder 4y ago
Based on what I understand of the rating methodology, though, I'm still very surprised that Ada beats TypeScript. My understanding is that it's basically a measure of search results, and I would expect TypeScript to have vastly more of those than Ada, given that most Ada applications aren't going to be publicly discussed. I suspect that it has to do with names—Ada is highly overloaded in ways that are adjacent to programming (ADA, Ada Lovelace) and is a short enough word that Google may ignore it. A naive search for `ada programming` turns up 896 million results, compared to 28 million for `typescript programming`
- fabiospampinato 4y ago
  Exactly, Ada is searched for 2x as much as TS? No way.

Atlas22 4y ago

Although my intuition would seem to agree with you, Ada is still heavily used in industries where programming errors are fatal like avionics, medical devices, military, space, automotive. None of these industries typically like to operate in public view so I believe there is a reasonable argument that Ada may even be underrepresented in most indexes.

klyrs 4y ago

TIOBE has always been flawed; it doesn't claim to be perfect. It's an interesting metric, and deeply unpopular languages don't make the cut. Once-popular Pascal has been plummeting in recent years. That said, their chart has a particularly unsettling feature: the SQL line is dead flat from early 2004 to 2018.

7thaccount 4y ago
Yeah...I think you'd expect it to grow a good bit during that time frame, unless it's heavily normalized somehow.

stephc_int13 4y ago

I don't know what is the methodology behind the TIOBE rating but what is clear is that a lot of stuff happens below the radar of the average silicon valley dev. Most software is not user facing.

duskwuff 4y ago
The TIOBE index is effectively just based on the number of estimated hits for "$LANGUAGE programming" on Google. That's it. It's not based on actual usage, or interest, and certainly not importance; it's just counting search results. (They actually search on a few sites other than Google, but they're bizarrely chosen -- they include search hits on Walmart and Etsy, for example. And the way they weight search results effectively means that the wildly inflated Google search result counts dominate the ranking.)

deleted 4y ago

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