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I am puzzled by the article's spin on this, which really centers on the fact that this original proof was authored by two teenage African-American girls from th

by yafbum 4y ago

I am puzzled by the article's spin on this, which really centers on the fact that this original proof was authored by two teenage African-American girls from the South, as if the interesting thing here was not so much the proof itself than the idea that there are gifted mathematicians from underrepresented backgrounds and skin colors. In my experience, pretty much in any place and social stratus you might visit, there are bright kids who love math. The challenge is more about what happens next in their career — can these kids get affordable higher education, and a career track that values their gift? My data point of one is a friend of mine, who was an extremely bright student of physics, but had to drop out of college early because he couldn't afford it and needed to start making money. That kind of thing could explain skewed representation in science more than lack of talented high schoolers...

matthewdgreen 4y ago
I think it's excellent that you, a commenter on HN, understand that important contributions can come from all parts of society. I really wish that understanding was shared more broadly across this whole country. Unfortunately I've been alive long enough to see that it really is not. I suspect that more people felt as you do, we wouldn't have so many barriers to opportunity for kids. Moreover, the existence of those barriers wouldn't be so disproportionately correlated to race and place-of-birth.
samgtx 4y ago
It's telling that your comment is currently 2nd ranked. It comes across generous "there are bright math kids everywhere" but really boils down to "don't talk about how they're black" and "don't talk about how they're women." And finished with "my male friend was disadvantaged, the conversation should be about that." Obviously a large number of the HN crowd agrees with you because these types of comments always land at the top of any article praising a woman or underrepresented minority for their accomplishments. "Why does it matter? We are all people." That's very easy to say when you are in the position of not having your accomplishments and intelligence questioned based on your race or gender. And it shows how homogeneous the HN community is that these types of comments continue to be upvoted to the top. Representation matters. When you have no concept of what it is like to be black in the deep south. Or to be a woman in the deep south, much less both, you have no appreciation for why stories like this are so interesting and inspiring to the people who relate to them.
- harvey9 4y ago
  [flagged]
- yafbum 4y ago
  > It's telling that your comment is currently 2nd ranked. Fwiw i think only because it's relatively recent. Not a lot of upvotes currently. > It comes across generous "there are bright math kids everywhere" but really boils down to "don't talk about how they're black" and "don't talk about how they're women." And finished with "my male friend was disadvantaged, the conversation should be about that." Wow now I think you're reading a lot more into it than what I wrote. > Obviously a large number of the HN crowd agrees with you because these types of comments always land at the top of any article praising a woman or underrepresented minority for their accomplishments. "Why does it matter? We are all people." That's not actually my claim. I do agree that representation matters. But I find it condescending when someone's accomplishments are only ever mentioned in the same sentence as some statistically surprising fact about their identity, as if what we were saying here is "not bad for a X". (And fwiw I do find it condescending when I'm a recipient of such praise in settings where I'm in the minority.)
- duneisagoodbook 4y ago
  well said
- allenu 4y ago
  I read through the article as well and was put off mostly by how it was presented that the students are black females: > They are female, they are African-American, and they come from an area which is not particularly renowned for producing high academic achievers. This is just an awesome turn of events and one which should inspire anyone — no matter what their gender, ethnic or socio-demographic background — that excellence in your chosen field of study is always attainable if you have enough joy and passion for what you do. I'm a person of color myself (not black) and seeing this statement (and the fact that the author is white) made it come across as "Look, even a black female can excel in math if they have enough joy and passion in what they do." On the surface, it seems like an innocuous statement, but what it really reads is "the only thing holding you back as an underrepresented person in society, especially being black and female, is your joy and passion, so keep working at it and you too can excel at math". It just reads as tone deaf to me. My point is there's a way to present the fact that they're black and female, but you have to be careful how you word it because it can otherwise come across as almost condescending.
kmeisthax 4y ago
Skewed representation is the end product of multiple filters working in tandem. You're correct that there are still further filters and that college is one of them. But the filters don't start in college, it just continues. The girls in question have already passed through several.
- yafbum 4y ago
  That's a good point

by yafbum 4y ago

matthewdgreen 4y ago

I think it's excellent that you, a commenter on HN, understand that important contributions can come from all parts of society. I really wish that understanding was shared more broadly across this whole country. Unfortunately I've been alive long enough to see that it really is not. I suspect that more people felt as you do, we wouldn't have so many barriers to opportunity for kids. Moreover, the existence of those barriers wouldn't be so disproportionately correlated to race and place-of-birth.

samgtx 4y ago

It's telling that your comment is currently 2nd ranked. It comes across generous "there are bright math kids everywhere" but really boils down to "don't talk about how they're black" and "don't talk about how they're women." And finished with "my male friend was disadvantaged, the conversation should be about that." Obviously a large number of the HN crowd agrees with you because these types of comments always land at the top of any article praising a woman or underrepresented minority for their accomplishments. "Why does it matter? We are all people." That's very easy to say when you are in the position of not having your accomplishments and intelligence questioned based on your race or gender. And it shows how homogeneous the HN community is that these types of comments continue to be upvoted to the top. Representation matters. When you have no concept of what it is like to be black in the deep south. Or to be a woman in the deep south, much less both, you have no appreciation for why stories like this are so interesting and inspiring to the people who relate to them.

harvey9 4y ago
[flagged]
yafbum 4y ago
> It's telling that your comment is currently 2nd ranked. Fwiw i think only because it's relatively recent. Not a lot of upvotes currently. > It comes across generous "there are bright math kids everywhere" but really boils down to "don't talk about how they're black" and "don't talk about how they're women." And finished with "my male friend was disadvantaged, the conversation should be about that." Wow now I think you're reading a lot more into it than what I wrote. > Obviously a large number of the HN crowd agrees with you because these types of comments always land at the top of any article praising a woman or underrepresented minority for their accomplishments. "Why does it matter? We are all people." That's not actually my claim. I do agree that representation matters. But I find it condescending when someone's accomplishments are only ever mentioned in the same sentence as some statistically surprising fact about their identity, as if what we were saying here is "not bad for a X". (And fwiw I do find it condescending when I'm a recipient of such praise in settings where I'm in the minority.)
duneisagoodbook 4y ago
well said
allenu 4y ago
I read through the article as well and was put off mostly by how it was presented that the students are black females: > They are female, they are African-American, and they come from an area which is not particularly renowned for producing high academic achievers. This is just an awesome turn of events and one which should inspire anyone — no matter what their gender, ethnic or socio-demographic background — that excellence in your chosen field of study is always attainable if you have enough joy and passion for what you do. I'm a person of color myself (not black) and seeing this statement (and the fact that the author is white) made it come across as "Look, even a black female can excel in math if they have enough joy and passion in what they do." On the surface, it seems like an innocuous statement, but what it really reads is "the only thing holding you back as an underrepresented person in society, especially being black and female, is your joy and passion, so keep working at it and you too can excel at math". It just reads as tone deaf to me. My point is there's a way to present the fact that they're black and female, but you have to be careful how you word it because it can otherwise come across as almost condescending.

kmeisthax 4y ago

Skewed representation is the end product of multiple filters working in tandem. You're correct that there are still further filters and that college is one of them. But the filters don't start in college, it just continues. The girls in question have already passed through several.

yafbum 4y ago
That's a good point