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Could the American plan be described as "use military force to suppress the terrorist group, and then give money to the legitimate government in exchange for mi

Could the American plan be described as "use military force to suppress the terrorist group, and then give money to the legitimate government in exchange for minerals", and the Chinese plan as "give money to the terrorist group in exchange for minerals"?

xtian 4y ago
It’s incredible that an illegitimate government can take over the entire country in ten days whereas the legitimate one wasn’t sustainable after twenty years of military and economic support.
- beebmam 4y ago
  Turns out that Afghans as a whole don't believe much in traditional Liberalism! Whereas it seems like Ukrainians do.
  - nortonham 4y ago
    Most people don't like their nation being invaded and seeing their families die. Why would Afghanis be any different?
  - xtian 4y ago
    What’s the relevance of Ukraine?
  - photochemsyn 4y ago
    Didn't much of the conflict in Ukraine from 2014 onwards arise from an effort to treat Russian-speaking Ukrainians as second-class citizens by the newly installed government? https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2014-010539_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2014-01053... For comparison, this would be like the U.S. government banning the use of Spanish or any other minority language, refusing to print translations of government documents in those languages, etc. Such a policy would certainly generate tension and resentment in areas like the Southwestern USA, and would be hard to characterize as 'liberal'. Of course, in the context of TAPI and Afghanistan, the Ukraine war is just part of the ongoing struggle over who gets to sell fossil fuels to Europe, i.e. Russian pipeline gas vs USA tanker LNG.
    - throwaway6734 4y ago
      The conflict in Ukraine is caused by Russia's imperialistic and colonial mindset towards the rest of eastern Europe. They invaded because a majority of Ukrainian peoples wanted closer relationships with Europe and to throw off the yoke of Russian authoritarianism.
      - xtian 4y ago
        Majority? https://www.kyivpost.com/post/7158 https://www.kyivpost.com/post/7158
        throwaway6734 4y ago
        Majority https://www.iri.org/wp-content/uploads/legacy/iri.org/2014%20April%205%20IRI%20Public%20Opinion%20Survey%20of%20Ukraine,%20March%2014-26,%202014.pdf https://www.iri.org/wp-content/uploads/legacy/iri.org/2014%2...
        xtian 4y ago
        US state-affiliated media https://www.iri.org/news/national-endowment-for-democracy-ned-ndi-iri-cipe-and-solidarity-center-welcome-increased-funding-from-congress/ https://www.iri.org/news/national-endowment-for-democracy-ne...
        throwaway6734 4y ago
        Are you disputing the results? They seem inline with the article you shared as well as the actions of the Ukrainian people since 2014. Russia's colonial relationship with the Ukrainian people has been disastrous and it is great to see them fighting against an imperialistic and genocidal regime.
        xtian 4y ago
        Are you disputing Russia’s position? It seems in line with the actions of the Ukrainians in the Donbas region since 2014. Edit, can’t reply: Russia’s position is that Crimea and Donbas republics had the right to secede due to the fact that Yanukovych was removed via illegal coup (organized by the US). Ukrainian sovereignty was forfeit when Yanukovych was removed despite insufficient parliamentary votes to do so according to the Ukrainian constitution. The Minsk agreements, meant to resolve these disputes, were not implemented, and now based on statements by European leaders we know they were never intended to be implemented.
- itsagavin 4y ago
  Because "Afghanistan" only exists when the tribal autonomy is threatened otherwise Afghanistan has no real central government and it seems there is no will to be centrally governed. A completely different way of life the west continues to not understand. China will divide and conquer as it does in other similar regions just by making it too painful to not take their money when your local competition is.
saiya-jin 4y ago
There wasnt much legitimity in US-backed government, its empire ended at the border of Kabul. More moderate than extremists, but utterly corrupt, from what I read utterly incompetent in governing country properly. Typical resource curse place, without even getting to the resource part properly
nortonham 4y ago
China's plan could just be do business with current gov't rather than invade and install a puppet gov't at an incredible cost to human life. They tend to do business with nations all over the world. They don't comment much on the politics of nations they do business with (e.g. Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc). I also think that is a very odd reading of the US invasion of Afghanistan. Even more so considering that the US has a track record of supporting fascists and terrorists for decades, and will overthrow gov'ts if it means access to natural resources, and greater profits for US corporations.

xtian 4y ago

It’s incredible that an illegitimate government can take over the entire country in ten days whereas the legitimate one wasn’t sustainable after twenty years of military and economic support.

beebmam 4y ago
Turns out that Afghans as a whole don't believe much in traditional Liberalism! Whereas it seems like Ukrainians do.
- nortonham 4y ago
  Most people don't like their nation being invaded and seeing their families die. Why would Afghanis be any different?
- xtian 4y ago
  What’s the relevance of Ukraine?
- photochemsyn 4y ago
  Didn't much of the conflict in Ukraine from 2014 onwards arise from an effort to treat Russian-speaking Ukrainians as second-class citizens by the newly installed government? https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2014-010539_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2014-01053... For comparison, this would be like the U.S. government banning the use of Spanish or any other minority language, refusing to print translations of government documents in those languages, etc. Such a policy would certainly generate tension and resentment in areas like the Southwestern USA, and would be hard to characterize as 'liberal'. Of course, in the context of TAPI and Afghanistan, the Ukraine war is just part of the ongoing struggle over who gets to sell fossil fuels to Europe, i.e. Russian pipeline gas vs USA tanker LNG.
  - throwaway6734 4y ago
    The conflict in Ukraine is caused by Russia's imperialistic and colonial mindset towards the rest of eastern Europe. They invaded because a majority of Ukrainian peoples wanted closer relationships with Europe and to throw off the yoke of Russian authoritarianism.
    - xtian 4y ago
      Majority? https://www.kyivpost.com/post/7158 https://www.kyivpost.com/post/7158
      - throwaway6734 4y ago
        Majority https://www.iri.org/wp-content/uploads/legacy/iri.org/2014%20April%205%20IRI%20Public%20Opinion%20Survey%20of%20Ukraine,%20March%2014-26,%202014.pdf https://www.iri.org/wp-content/uploads/legacy/iri.org/2014%2...
        xtian 4y ago
        US state-affiliated media https://www.iri.org/news/national-endowment-for-democracy-ned-ndi-iri-cipe-and-solidarity-center-welcome-increased-funding-from-congress/ https://www.iri.org/news/national-endowment-for-democracy-ne...
        throwaway6734 4y ago
        Are you disputing the results? They seem inline with the article you shared as well as the actions of the Ukrainian people since 2014. Russia's colonial relationship with the Ukrainian people has been disastrous and it is great to see them fighting against an imperialistic and genocidal regime.
        xtian 4y ago
        Are you disputing Russia’s position? It seems in line with the actions of the Ukrainians in the Donbas region since 2014. Edit, can’t reply: Russia’s position is that Crimea and Donbas republics had the right to secede due to the fact that Yanukovych was removed via illegal coup (organized by the US). Ukrainian sovereignty was forfeit when Yanukovych was removed despite insufficient parliamentary votes to do so according to the Ukrainian constitution. The Minsk agreements, meant to resolve these disputes, were not implemented, and now based on statements by European leaders we know they were never intended to be implemented.
itsagavin 4y ago
Because "Afghanistan" only exists when the tribal autonomy is threatened otherwise Afghanistan has no real central government and it seems there is no will to be centrally governed. A completely different way of life the west continues to not understand. China will divide and conquer as it does in other similar regions just by making it too painful to not take their money when your local competition is.

saiya-jin 4y ago

There wasnt much legitimity in US-backed government, its empire ended at the border of Kabul. More moderate than extremists, but utterly corrupt, from what I read utterly incompetent in governing country properly. Typical resource curse place, without even getting to the resource part properly

nortonham 4y ago

China's plan could just be do business with current gov't rather than invade and install a puppet gov't at an incredible cost to human life. They tend to do business with nations all over the world. They don't comment much on the politics of nations they do business with (e.g. Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc). I also think that is a very odd reading of the US invasion of Afghanistan. Even more so considering that the US has a track record of supporting fascists and terrorists for decades, and will overthrow gov'ts if it means access to natural resources, and greater profits for US corporations.