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Why? So let's say people pay to switch the infrastructure to support propane vehicles. Then they switch to electric? Propane also appears to be less energy d

Why? So let's say people pay to switch the infrastructure to support propane vehicles. Then they switch to electric? Propane also appears to be less energy dense than Gasoline. So people would be buying more fuel than before. I don't know, I don't see the consumer coming out ahead on this while EV will have become the standard in the 2030's.

Gordonjcp 3y ago
It's less energy dense, but it's a lot cheaper and cleaner. Electric cars aren't particularly clean or economical to make, and you can convert any existing petrol car for about £1000 to run on LPG.
- iamerroragent 3y ago
  Electric cars are clean though, you have massive improvement in air quality in cities alone. And they are great economic opportunity since you're selling everyone a new car. That's a massive economic boost. Anything related to mining, well a lot of mining is bad and it's not like internal combustion engines have been all that great for the environment either. So moot imo. Frankly I think the notion that EV is worse for the environment and battery technology being allegedly bad are just parroted talking points that negate to compare how EV would stack up to combustion technology if you applied the same number of engineering man hours to it but I digress. Regardless propane from what I can gather isn't that much cheaper than gasoline at least for the U.S. so any potential savings in it being less expensive is easily lost by needing to burn more to go the same distance as gasoline. Plus the conversion sounds expensive and warranty voiding. Most consumers wouldn't bother.
  - Gordonjcp 3y ago
    They're not very clean to make, which is the bigger problem. If you convert a petrol car to run on propane, the exhaust emissions are water vapour and carbon dioxide, with no CO, no HC, and pretty much no nitrogen or sulphur oxides. This is why things like warehouse forklifts run on propane - you can't die from breathing the exhaust fumes, unlike petrol or diesel. Typically you'd convert older cars, of which we have plenty. We don't need to make new cars, because there are enough cars for everyone - we just need to make them run cleaner.
    - iamerroragent 3y ago
      Unfortunately that's not how the world economy works. It's a nice notion but it's not going to happen.
      - Gordonjcp 3y ago
        As I previously mentioned, it doesn't sell anyone any amount of new debt. The whole point of "scrappage schemes" where you can scrap your dirty inefficient old car that only gets 40mpg and buy a new one that is much cleaner and more efficient at 41mpg for only 600 quid a month at 77% APR is to get people as deep into debt as possible. Because debt is profitable, and clean air is not.
        iamerroragent 3y ago
        Okay. That sounds nice, now tell automakers to stop making cars and just become companies that convert cars and pay pensions.

Gordonjcp 3y ago

It's less energy dense, but it's a lot cheaper and cleaner. Electric cars aren't particularly clean or economical to make, and you can convert any existing petrol car for about £1000 to run on LPG.

iamerroragent 3y ago
Electric cars are clean though, you have massive improvement in air quality in cities alone. And they are great economic opportunity since you're selling everyone a new car. That's a massive economic boost. Anything related to mining, well a lot of mining is bad and it's not like internal combustion engines have been all that great for the environment either. So moot imo. Frankly I think the notion that EV is worse for the environment and battery technology being allegedly bad are just parroted talking points that negate to compare how EV would stack up to combustion technology if you applied the same number of engineering man hours to it but I digress. Regardless propane from what I can gather isn't that much cheaper than gasoline at least for the U.S. so any potential savings in it being less expensive is easily lost by needing to burn more to go the same distance as gasoline. Plus the conversion sounds expensive and warranty voiding. Most consumers wouldn't bother.
- Gordonjcp 3y ago
  They're not very clean to make, which is the bigger problem. If you convert a petrol car to run on propane, the exhaust emissions are water vapour and carbon dioxide, with no CO, no HC, and pretty much no nitrogen or sulphur oxides. This is why things like warehouse forklifts run on propane - you can't die from breathing the exhaust fumes, unlike petrol or diesel. Typically you'd convert older cars, of which we have plenty. We don't need to make new cars, because there are enough cars for everyone - we just need to make them run cleaner.
  - iamerroragent 3y ago
    Unfortunately that's not how the world economy works. It's a nice notion but it's not going to happen.
    - Gordonjcp 3y ago
      As I previously mentioned, it doesn't sell anyone any amount of new debt. The whole point of "scrappage schemes" where you can scrap your dirty inefficient old car that only gets 40mpg and buy a new one that is much cleaner and more efficient at 41mpg for only 600 quid a month at 77% APR is to get people as deep into debt as possible. Because debt is profitable, and clean air is not.
      - iamerroragent 3y ago
        Okay. That sounds nice, now tell automakers to stop making cars and just become companies that convert cars and pay pensions.