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by my_city 3y ago

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christophilus 3y ago
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- biosboiii 3y ago
  all my political opponents are state actors
  - dang 3y ago
    Yes, that's basically the default internet user reaction, and it's particularly poisonous to discussion and therefore explicitly against HN's guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- dang 3y ago
  You can't post like this to HN, no matter how another commenter is behaving. The site guidelines are quite clear about it: "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... The reason is that internet users are overwhelmingly too quick to accuse other people of being spies, manipulators, etc.—it's a garden-variety form of online disagreeing that is at least as destructive to the community as anything people are accusing each other of doing. We have long years of experience investigating this stuff and have nearly always found that it is simply a disagreement between people with different backgrounds happening to have different views. That doesn't mean there's no organized abuse—just that (as far as we can tell from the data we have) that's a rarer phenomenon than internet users poisoning the ecosystem unprompted. This leads to ugly things like mob behavior and good-faith users being hounded off the site. That's absolutely not ok, so we have to be careful about enforcing this rule. For past explanation, if anyone wants more, see for example https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27398725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27398725. I also made a list of past moderation comments on this at https://news.ycombinator.com/chinamod https://news.ycombinator.com/chinamod.
  - joebiden2 3y ago
    This is the gist of what makes HN great. Sorry for this unsubstantial post, but I just have to say that. Thanks for your moderation. Incredible work!
  - christophilus 3y ago
    Thanks, dang, I’ll try to remember this in the future. I appreciate your thoughtfulness and all the hard work you do moderating this place!
deleted 3y ago
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zabzonk 3y ago
> you mean like EVERY SINGLE western journalist and why do you think they do that? isn't it possiblee that there are many things very, very wrong with china?
dang 3y ago
We've banned this account for using HN exclusively for ideological and nationalistic battle and ignoring our request to stop (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35347522 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35347522). That's not ok on HN, regardless of what you're battling for or against: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. In case anyone is worried about us "banning $user just because you disagree with their $views" - I've spent countless hours protecting and defending HN commenters who happen to be posting contrary views on China, just as on any other topic. You can see years' worth of this at https://news.ycombinator.com/chinamod https://news.ycombinator.com/chinamod, which is a list I made when this worry came up once before. So yes, it's certainly ok for people with different backgrounds to defend minority views on HN—that's an important principle here. It's not ok, though, to just use HN for destructive flamewar. We have to ban accounts that do the latter regardless of what they're arguing for. Accounts arguing for contrarian positions are under greater pressure because they get surrounded and pounced on by the majority in ways that can feel very much like being ganged up on. This makes it understandable that they tend to become defensive (i.e. aggressive), resort to snark and fulmination and flamewar, etc. But even though it's understandable, it's not ok, and we don't have a choice but to ban accounts when they are doing this with no regard for HN's rules.

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christophilus 3y ago

[flagged]

biosboiii 3y ago
all my political opponents are state actors
- dang 3y ago
  Yes, that's basically the default internet user reaction, and it's particularly poisonous to discussion and therefore explicitly against HN's guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
dang 3y ago
You can't post like this to HN, no matter how another commenter is behaving. The site guidelines are quite clear about it: "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... The reason is that internet users are overwhelmingly too quick to accuse other people of being spies, manipulators, etc.—it's a garden-variety form of online disagreeing that is at least as destructive to the community as anything people are accusing each other of doing. We have long years of experience investigating this stuff and have nearly always found that it is simply a disagreement between people with different backgrounds happening to have different views. That doesn't mean there's no organized abuse—just that (as far as we can tell from the data we have) that's a rarer phenomenon than internet users poisoning the ecosystem unprompted. This leads to ugly things like mob behavior and good-faith users being hounded off the site. That's absolutely not ok, so we have to be careful about enforcing this rule. For past explanation, if anyone wants more, see for example https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27398725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27398725. I also made a list of past moderation comments on this at https://news.ycombinator.com/chinamod https://news.ycombinator.com/chinamod.
- joebiden2 3y ago
  This is the gist of what makes HN great. Sorry for this unsubstantial post, but I just have to say that. Thanks for your moderation. Incredible work!
- christophilus 3y ago
  Thanks, dang, I’ll try to remember this in the future. I appreciate your thoughtfulness and all the hard work you do moderating this place!

deleted 3y ago

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zabzonk 3y ago

> you mean like EVERY SINGLE western journalist and why do you think they do that? isn't it possiblee that there are many things very, very wrong with china?

dang 3y ago

We've banned this account for using HN exclusively for ideological and nationalistic battle and ignoring our request to stop (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35347522 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35347522). That's not ok on HN, regardless of what you're battling for or against: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. In case anyone is worried about us "banning $user just because you disagree with their $views" - I've spent countless hours protecting and defending HN commenters who happen to be posting contrary views on China, just as on any other topic. You can see years' worth of this at https://news.ycombinator.com/chinamod https://news.ycombinator.com/chinamod, which is a list I made when this worry came up once before. So yes, it's certainly ok for people with different backgrounds to defend minority views on HN—that's an important principle here. It's not ok, though, to just use HN for destructive flamewar. We have to ban accounts that do the latter regardless of what they're arguing for. Accounts arguing for contrarian positions are under greater pressure because they get surrounded and pounced on by the majority in ways that can feel very much like being ganged up on. This makes it understandable that they tend to become defensive (i.e. aggressive), resort to snark and fulmination and flamewar, etc. But even though it's understandable, it's not ok, and we don't have a choice but to ban accounts when they are doing this with no regard for HN's rules.