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> China has also been accused of illegally operating secret police stations in Amsterdam I had to read that a few times because it just sounded nonsensical. Wh

by rdtsc 4y ago

> China has also been accused of illegally operating secret police stations in Amsterdam I had to read that a few times because it just sounded nonsensical. What where the repercussions for Chinese govt. for that action? It there weren’t any except strong worded “we seek explanation” requests, the Chinese will just double down on attacks. Bullies see weak responses as an invitation for more bullying.

cpach 4y ago
According to Safeguard Defenders, China has this kind of operations in many other countries too. https://safeguarddefenders.com/en/110-overseas https://safeguarddefenders.com/en/110-overseas https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63395617 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63395617
- icepat 4y ago
  Canada as well: https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-police-probe-alleged-chinese-police-stations-montreal-2023-03-09 https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-police-probe-a...
- rattray 4y ago
  Wow. The article claims 54 centers across 21 countries in 5 continents. There's nowhere to hide if you're a Chinese dissident, it seems...
jacquesm 4y ago
It unfortunately is not only nonsensical but also true and it is one of the worst violations of Dutch territorial integrity in a very long time. The whole idea that some far away country would subject its citizens here to their laws makes absolutely no sense and has no doubt interfered with many police cases over the years. What is really mind blowing is that the Chinese society in NL is so closed off from the rest of the country that word of this did not reach the authorities for many years. And what it says to me is that if this could happen in Amsterdam, 300 meters away from a Dutch police station that it likely can happen anywhere in the world and that I would not be surprised at all if more of these turned up if people actively went looking for them.
- BLKNSLVR 4y ago
  There's one in Sydney, and apparently about 80 in total around the world: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-13/beijing-sets-up-overseas-police-presence-including-in-australia/101512216 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-13/beijing-sets-up-overs...
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    So, what's being done about them?
    - uranusjr 4y ago
      Nothing particularly concrete. What do you expect can be done?
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        Kick out any Chinese that take part in these police stations on the side of the authorities.
        AnimalMuppet 4y ago
        Yes, that. But first raid the place, with no notice, in overwhelming force, and seize all the papers.
        bombolo 4y ago
        what if they have permanent residence permit or more?
        actionfromafar 4y ago
        A fair trial and (if there is evidence) a long time in jail.
        jacquesm 4y ago
        Then they'll find that it is our laws that matter.
ethbr0 4y ago
> "we seek explanation” requests A big portion of diplomacy is signalling what a country is aware of, how it feels about the transgression, and consequences it claims it'll implement if nothing changes. The intent of grey actions is that they're arguably legal. And the intent of response to same is to make whoever runs the program reevaluate the costs of doing so and voluntarily close up the operation. Ergo, the response is calibrated instead of just dropping the hammer immediately every time. If nothing happens... then eventually you get police raids.
dghughes 4y ago
Canada too has secret Chinese police stations https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-secret-police-stations-allegations-reaction-quebec-1.6774461 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-secret-police-stations-a... I'll go out on a limb and bet there are everywhere.
- morkalork 4y ago
  Here, there, everywhere. Maybe even on your local city council: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2023/03/11/accused-of-being-a-chinese-police-station-a-canadian-non-profit-denied-having-any-connection-to-the-chinese-state-new-revelations-raise-questions.html https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2023/03/11/accused-of-be... Also this: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/china-denies-role-in-backlash-against-tibetan-student-s-election-at-u-of-t-1.5021226 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/china-denies-role-in-... And those are just a couple of stories that blew up. There's countless others being underreported.
ouid 4y ago
It's not particularly fair to single out the Nerherlands here. These operations seem to be more or less allowed to continue in the US and Canada as well. The dutch don't have nearly the standing that America has.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
olalonde 4y ago
It sounds nonsensical because it is: they're not police stations.
lostlogin 4y ago
tjpnz pointed out how poorly the NZ government has done when an academic her was targeting by China. In another parallel, China has reportedly been operating a police station here too. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/report-of-china-run-police-station-spurs-govt-to-launch-multi-agency-probe/3V7VA7D4GNH7ROSTYFO6DX6HYI/ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/report-of-china-run-p...

by rdtsc 4y ago

cpach 4y ago

According to Safeguard Defenders, China has this kind of operations in many other countries too. https://safeguarddefenders.com/en/110-overseas https://safeguarddefenders.com/en/110-overseas https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63395617 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63395617

icepat 4y ago
Canada as well: https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-police-probe-alleged-chinese-police-stations-montreal-2023-03-09 https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-police-probe-a...
rattray 4y ago
Wow. The article claims 54 centers across 21 countries in 5 continents. There's nowhere to hide if you're a Chinese dissident, it seems...

jacquesm 4y ago

It unfortunately is not only nonsensical but also true and it is one of the worst violations of Dutch territorial integrity in a very long time. The whole idea that some far away country would subject its citizens here to their laws makes absolutely no sense and has no doubt interfered with many police cases over the years. What is really mind blowing is that the Chinese society in NL is so closed off from the rest of the country that word of this did not reach the authorities for many years. And what it says to me is that if this could happen in Amsterdam, 300 meters away from a Dutch police station that it likely can happen anywhere in the world and that I would not be surprised at all if more of these turned up if people actively went looking for them.

BLKNSLVR 4y ago
There's one in Sydney, and apparently about 80 in total around the world: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-13/beijing-sets-up-overseas-police-presence-including-in-australia/101512216 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-13/beijing-sets-up-overs...
- jacquesm 4y ago
  So, what's being done about them?
  - uranusjr 4y ago
    Nothing particularly concrete. What do you expect can be done?
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      Kick out any Chinese that take part in these police stations on the side of the authorities.
      - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
        Yes, that. But first raid the place, with no notice, in overwhelming force, and seize all the papers.
      - bombolo 4y ago
        what if they have permanent residence permit or more?
        actionfromafar 4y ago
        A fair trial and (if there is evidence) a long time in jail.
        jacquesm 4y ago
        Then they'll find that it is our laws that matter.

ethbr0 4y ago

> "we seek explanation” requests A big portion of diplomacy is signalling what a country is aware of, how it feels about the transgression, and consequences it claims it'll implement if nothing changes. The intent of grey actions is that they're arguably legal. And the intent of response to same is to make whoever runs the program reevaluate the costs of doing so and voluntarily close up the operation. Ergo, the response is calibrated instead of just dropping the hammer immediately every time. If nothing happens... then eventually you get police raids.

dghughes 4y ago

Canada too has secret Chinese police stations https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-secret-police-stations-allegations-reaction-quebec-1.6774461 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/china-secret-police-stations-a... I'll go out on a limb and bet there are everywhere.

morkalork 4y ago
Here, there, everywhere. Maybe even on your local city council: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2023/03/11/accused-of-being-a-chinese-police-station-a-canadian-non-profit-denied-having-any-connection-to-the-chinese-state-new-revelations-raise-questions.html https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2023/03/11/accused-of-be... Also this: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/china-denies-role-in-backlash-against-tibetan-student-s-election-at-u-of-t-1.5021226 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/china-denies-role-in-... And those are just a couple of stories that blew up. There's countless others being underreported.

ouid 4y ago

It's not particularly fair to single out the Nerherlands here. These operations seem to be more or less allowed to continue in the US and Canada as well. The dutch don't have nearly the standing that America has.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

olalonde 4y ago

It sounds nonsensical because it is: they're not police stations.

lostlogin 4y ago

tjpnz pointed out how poorly the NZ government has done when an academic her was targeting by China. In another parallel, China has reportedly been operating a police station here too. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/report-of-china-run-police-station-spurs-govt-to-launch-multi-agency-probe/3V7VA7D4GNH7ROSTYFO6DX6HYI/ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/report-of-china-run-p...