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Writing a browser engine that supports the modern web and run on personal computers is never going to happen unless there’s some legal intervention. All the exa

Writing a browser engine that supports the modern web and run on personal computers is never going to happen unless there’s some legal intervention. All the examples you’ve given are living proof. We’re at the mercy of Blink and WebKit. The latter only due to Apples iron grip on iOS browsers.

callumprentice 4y ago
https://awesomekling.github.io/Ladybird-a-new-cross-platform-browser-project/ https://awesomekling.github.io/Ladybird-a-new-cross-platform... A mammoth task but the Serenity team is making huge progress.
quicklime 4y ago
It's not impossible, and the examples listed are living proof that it is possible. People often cite the failure of Edge/Trident - even with the resources of Microsoft, it's still impossible to compete with Google. But there's a big difference between "competing with Google and taking significant market share away from Chrome" and just "writing a browser engine that supports the modern web and runs on personal computers". The latter is definitely not impossible.
- fabrice_d 4y ago
  I also don't think it's impossible, but none of these engines show that it's possible either (same goes for Servo that is being revived by Igalia). None of them is usable for day-to-day browsing yet, and they are likely still in the phase where a lot of impressing progress can be made quickly. I'd be curious to see how they progress on interop tests like https://wpt.fyi/interop-2023 https://wpt.fyi/interop-2023
- paulddraper 4y ago
  Which one of those examples finished? I wish them all the best, but you can't hold up some half finished project as proof of feasibility.
  - userbinator 4y ago
    On the other hand, is Big Browser "finished" either? When you realise that change is their weapon, and that they've been successfully convincing web developers with propaganda that the latest is the greatest, the latest features that only work in their browser, while at the same time deprecating features that existed for possibly decades before in all browsers and providing essentially equivalent functionality, you'll see the truth of the situation. It's not "embrace, extend, extinguish"; it's "embrace, extend, extend, extend, extend..."
flangola7 4y ago
The real problem is that "the modern web" has metastasized into a bloated monstrosity of feature creep orders of magnitude larger than it ever should have reached. The internet worked on my Windows XP computer. There is scarcely little more the internet does for me today than it did then, yet somehow simply opening a modern web browser requires more memory than my entire operating system did at that time.

callumprentice 4y ago

https://awesomekling.github.io/Ladybird-a-new-cross-platform-browser-project/ https://awesomekling.github.io/Ladybird-a-new-cross-platform... A mammoth task but the Serenity team is making huge progress.

quicklime 4y ago

It's not impossible, and the examples listed are living proof that it is possible. People often cite the failure of Edge/Trident - even with the resources of Microsoft, it's still impossible to compete with Google. But there's a big difference between "competing with Google and taking significant market share away from Chrome" and just "writing a browser engine that supports the modern web and runs on personal computers". The latter is definitely not impossible.

fabrice_d 4y ago
I also don't think it's impossible, but none of these engines show that it's possible either (same goes for Servo that is being revived by Igalia). None of them is usable for day-to-day browsing yet, and they are likely still in the phase where a lot of impressing progress can be made quickly. I'd be curious to see how they progress on interop tests like https://wpt.fyi/interop-2023 https://wpt.fyi/interop-2023
paulddraper 4y ago
Which one of those examples finished? I wish them all the best, but you can't hold up some half finished project as proof of feasibility.
- userbinator 4y ago
  On the other hand, is Big Browser "finished" either? When you realise that change is their weapon, and that they've been successfully convincing web developers with propaganda that the latest is the greatest, the latest features that only work in their browser, while at the same time deprecating features that existed for possibly decades before in all browsers and providing essentially equivalent functionality, you'll see the truth of the situation. It's not "embrace, extend, extinguish"; it's "embrace, extend, extend, extend, extend..."

flangola7 4y ago

The real problem is that "the modern web" has metastasized into a bloated monstrosity of feature creep orders of magnitude larger than it ever should have reached. The internet worked on my Windows XP computer. There is scarcely little more the internet does for me today than it did then, yet somehow simply opening a modern web browser requires more memory than my entire operating system did at that time.