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> By all accounts, these two teenage math students are the exact opposite of the majority of the math establishment. They are female, they are African-American,

> By all accounts, these two teenage math students are the exact opposite of the majority of the math establishment. They are female, they are African-American, and they come from an area which is not particularly renowned for producing high academic achievers. This is just an awesome turn of events and one which should inspire anyone — no matter what their ethnic, gender or socio-demographic background — that excellence in your chosen field of study is always attainable I think it’s remiss not to point out here that these students attend a private, fee-paying Catholic all-girls academy. None of that detracts from the impressive achievement of discovering this elegant proof, of course.

secondcoming 4y ago
I don’t think Privilege matters in all cases, look at the background of Ada Lovelace.
- HL33tibCe7 4y ago
  It matters when you try and make the point that this case “should inspire anyone — no matter what their ethnic, gender or socio-demographic background“, as the article does
  - JKCalhoun 4y ago
    That's not the way I took the article. Rather I took it to mean something slightly different: Your ethnicity and/or gender should not be seen as a barrier to advanced mathematics. There is a nuanced difference there.
    - pedrosorio 4y ago
      I would also take that interpretation if the author didn't explicitly mention "socio-demographic background". They should just leave that one out next time.
      - eyelidlessness 4y ago
        > > Your ethnicity and/or gender should not be seen as a barrier to advanced mathematics. > I would also take that interpretation if the author didn't explicitly mention "socio-demographic background". They should just leave that one out next time. Please help me understand. Are you saying that it’s okay to say that ethnicity and/or gender should not be seen as a barrier to advanced mathematics, so long as you don’t explicitly acknowledge that ethnicity and/or gender may presently be a barrier to advanced mathematics? How does that even work? We achieve a meritocracy inherently based on not mentioning that we don’t have anything resembling a meritocracy? Because identifying reality is what makes it real?
        pedrosorio 4y ago
        Read the thread I am responding to.
        eyelidlessness 4y ago
        I did.
        pedrosorio 4y ago
        Cool. The summary then is: Ethnicity and Gender and Socio-demographic background != Ethnicity and Gender What you asked in your first comment seem to be orthogonal to the point I was making.
        eyelidlessness 4y ago
        Ethnicity and gender are two socio-demographic factors of many, yeah. So if I’m understanding you, it’s okay for the educator to want students to feel encouraged to succeed regardless of their ethnicity and gender, but shouldn’t mention any other socio-demographic barriers they might overcome? Or should specify them all? I’m trying to understand why mentioning the term is objectionable.
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  ... The daughter of Lord Byron?
  - foldr 4y ago
    Their point is that Ada Lovelace is still a salient example of a woman who made significant discoveries in computer science, even though she was also privileged in other ways. Indeed, in general, it's often otherwise-privileged members of disadvantaged groups who are the first to make advances.
    - boomboomsubban 4y ago
      The equivalent in Lovelace's case would be saying she's a woman from an area where most women are illiterate and work sixteen hour days in death trap factories. It's true, but ignoring that she was part of the nobility adds a disingenuous element to the statement. And saying that privilege doesn't matter is nonsense, without it she's unlikely to have had the opportunity to do what she did.
      - foldr 4y ago
        I don’t think OP was suggesting that Ada Lovelace wasn’t aided by her privileged position. Rather, they were saying that even though she was privileged, that doesn’t take away from her significance as a woman who was a pioneer in computer science. I doubt that is a controversial point. I think all three of us probably agree, and you may just have misinterpreted the original post.
uberman 4y ago
How would it be remiss to omit these factors, several of which seen irrelevant. Are you suggesting that their proof be discounted because it might be divinely inspired?
- threatofrain 4y ago
  The article is highlighting the inspirational quality of two black women from an underachieving area; it's not just about the proof. The inspirational story is an important element. Adding that these two youths came from a private school certainly relates to the "underachieving area" part of the story.
  - 908B64B197 4y ago
    > Adding that these two youths came from a private school certainly relates to the "underachieving area" part of the story. I don't want to take anything away from these two; the proof is novel and interesting and even if it wasn't novel after all it's still incredible to see high school students interested in math and capable of that level of reasoning. But yeah, that the two researchers (they've earned the tittle by giving a conference talk!) are from a private, selective school undermines a lot the "bad area and underachieving" narrative. It reminds me of a tech company who had a panel about their black engineers, pointing to the gap between the proportion of black SWE in the bay area relative the the percentage of people who identify as black. Three out of the four panelists were Nigerian born. When discussing their path to tech, one of them explained it was hard for him to convince his parents that he was not going to study surgery like his father and uncle. I assumed it would have resonated with anyone from an "underachieving area" in the audience...
- ThalesX 4y ago
  > Are you suggesting that their proof be discounted because it might be divinely inspired? I read it in a totally different way, that the merit of such institutions should be acknowledged. More so because of the culture because of any divine inspiration.
- concordDance 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
sbelskie 4y ago
Perhaps the website for the school is incomplete and only listing registration fees and not tuition but the only figure I see is $750, which is not nothing for plenty of families but is hardly what I would call expensive when it comes to private education. Am I missing something? Very well could be!
- User23 4y ago
  Parents that care are a huge predictor of academic success. Putting your child in a private school, even an affordable one, is more effort than just going with the default option and thus serves as signal for parents caring.
  - sbelskie 4y ago
    Are new articles about people’s accomplishments “remiss” for not including statements about how much their parents cared about them?
  - fancyham 4y ago
    Wealth is a huge predictor of academic (and business) success. Let’s put family wealth at the top of any news article about achievements, please.
- ummonk 4y ago
  I see tuition of several thousand (e.g. 7,800 for 8-11th grade): https://smaneworleans.com/tuition-fees https://smaneworleans.com/tuition-fees Still quite a steal as private schools go, and significantly less than one would have to pay in yearly rent / mortgage to get their kids into a good school district.
  - briandear 4y ago
    It’s a “steal” if you make California wages. For Louisiana, that’s a lot of money. The median home price in New Orleans is roughly $230k — in Santa Clara county, CA, it’s $1.3 million. That makes the tuition comparable to $45k per year which is more expensive that the best private schools in Silicon Valley. The math is sloppy, but the point is that the tutoring isn’t really a “steal.”
pelorat 4y ago
I think it's just fucked up these things needs to be mentioned at all. We're all fucking humans. Great job to these persons* * = a human being regarded as an individual
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  That's what centuries of oppression does. It makes this rare. Hopefully, elevating these achievements in the community can make a difference. Ignoring that this problem exists certainly won't. If you don't care about broadening the pool of mathematicians, simply ignore the part of the article about that subject.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - thrashh 4y ago
    It doesn’t need to be mentioned though. I’m Asian if I read an Asian name doing something that Asians don’t normally do (like the recent accolades for Everything Everywhere), it’s going to inspire me. You don’t have to point it out. The people who need to hear it are not dumb. Mentioning it just sounds pandering and cringy.
    - lern_too_spel 4y ago
      Publicly stating that it doesn't matter sounds pandering and cringey to me. Pretending that you would be inspired by an Asian doing mathematics sounds even more pandering cringey. If the proof came from the adult sons of educated Asian immigrant parents in Boston, it would be far less newsworthy. For people who care about speeding up progress in mathematics, the fact that this comes from a marginalized group is worthy of mention to understand how to repeat it. For everybody else, ranting about how it doesn't matter is simply off-topic flamebait utilized by culture warriors and their dupes.
  - steve76 4y ago
    [dead]

secondcoming 4y ago

I don’t think Privilege matters in all cases, look at the background of Ada Lovelace.

HL33tibCe7 4y ago
It matters when you try and make the point that this case “should inspire anyone — no matter what their ethnic, gender or socio-demographic background“, as the article does
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  That's not the way I took the article. Rather I took it to mean something slightly different: Your ethnicity and/or gender should not be seen as a barrier to advanced mathematics. There is a nuanced difference there.
  - pedrosorio 4y ago
    I would also take that interpretation if the author didn't explicitly mention "socio-demographic background". They should just leave that one out next time.
    - eyelidlessness 4y ago
      > > Your ethnicity and/or gender should not be seen as a barrier to advanced mathematics. > I would also take that interpretation if the author didn't explicitly mention "socio-demographic background". They should just leave that one out next time. Please help me understand. Are you saying that it’s okay to say that ethnicity and/or gender should not be seen as a barrier to advanced mathematics, so long as you don’t explicitly acknowledge that ethnicity and/or gender may presently be a barrier to advanced mathematics? How does that even work? We achieve a meritocracy inherently based on not mentioning that we don’t have anything resembling a meritocracy? Because identifying reality is what makes it real?
      - pedrosorio 4y ago
        Read the thread I am responding to.
        eyelidlessness 4y ago
        I did.
        pedrosorio 4y ago
        Cool. The summary then is: Ethnicity and Gender and Socio-demographic background != Ethnicity and Gender What you asked in your first comment seem to be orthogonal to the point I was making.
        eyelidlessness 4y ago
        Ethnicity and gender are two socio-demographic factors of many, yeah. So if I’m understanding you, it’s okay for the educator to want students to feel encouraged to succeed regardless of their ethnicity and gender, but shouldn’t mention any other socio-demographic barriers they might overcome? Or should specify them all? I’m trying to understand why mentioning the term is objectionable.
boomboomsubban 4y ago
... The daughter of Lord Byron?
- foldr 4y ago
  Their point is that Ada Lovelace is still a salient example of a woman who made significant discoveries in computer science, even though she was also privileged in other ways. Indeed, in general, it's often otherwise-privileged members of disadvantaged groups who are the first to make advances.
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    The equivalent in Lovelace's case would be saying she's a woman from an area where most women are illiterate and work sixteen hour days in death trap factories. It's true, but ignoring that she was part of the nobility adds a disingenuous element to the statement. And saying that privilege doesn't matter is nonsense, without it she's unlikely to have had the opportunity to do what she did.
    - foldr 4y ago
      I don’t think OP was suggesting that Ada Lovelace wasn’t aided by her privileged position. Rather, they were saying that even though she was privileged, that doesn’t take away from her significance as a woman who was a pioneer in computer science. I doubt that is a controversial point. I think all three of us probably agree, and you may just have misinterpreted the original post.

uberman 4y ago

How would it be remiss to omit these factors, several of which seen irrelevant. Are you suggesting that their proof be discounted because it might be divinely inspired?

threatofrain 4y ago
The article is highlighting the inspirational quality of two black women from an underachieving area; it's not just about the proof. The inspirational story is an important element. Adding that these two youths came from a private school certainly relates to the "underachieving area" part of the story.
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  > Adding that these two youths came from a private school certainly relates to the "underachieving area" part of the story. I don't want to take anything away from these two; the proof is novel and interesting and even if it wasn't novel after all it's still incredible to see high school students interested in math and capable of that level of reasoning. But yeah, that the two researchers (they've earned the tittle by giving a conference talk!) are from a private, selective school undermines a lot the "bad area and underachieving" narrative. It reminds me of a tech company who had a panel about their black engineers, pointing to the gap between the proportion of black SWE in the bay area relative the the percentage of people who identify as black. Three out of the four panelists were Nigerian born. When discussing their path to tech, one of them explained it was hard for him to convince his parents that he was not going to study surgery like his father and uncle. I assumed it would have resonated with anyone from an "underachieving area" in the audience...
ThalesX 4y ago
> Are you suggesting that their proof be discounted because it might be divinely inspired? I read it in a totally different way, that the merit of such institutions should be acknowledged. More so because of the culture because of any divine inspiration.
concordDance 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

sbelskie 4y ago

Perhaps the website for the school is incomplete and only listing registration fees and not tuition but the only figure I see is $750, which is not nothing for plenty of families but is hardly what I would call expensive when it comes to private education. Am I missing something? Very well could be!

User23 4y ago
Parents that care are a huge predictor of academic success. Putting your child in a private school, even an affordable one, is more effort than just going with the default option and thus serves as signal for parents caring.
- sbelskie 4y ago
  Are new articles about people’s accomplishments “remiss” for not including statements about how much their parents cared about them?
- fancyham 4y ago
  Wealth is a huge predictor of academic (and business) success. Let’s put family wealth at the top of any news article about achievements, please.
ummonk 4y ago
I see tuition of several thousand (e.g. 7,800 for 8-11th grade): https://smaneworleans.com/tuition-fees https://smaneworleans.com/tuition-fees Still quite a steal as private schools go, and significantly less than one would have to pay in yearly rent / mortgage to get their kids into a good school district.
- briandear 4y ago
  It’s a “steal” if you make California wages. For Louisiana, that’s a lot of money. The median home price in New Orleans is roughly $230k — in Santa Clara county, CA, it’s $1.3 million. That makes the tuition comparable to $45k per year which is more expensive that the best private schools in Silicon Valley. The math is sloppy, but the point is that the tutoring isn’t really a “steal.”

pelorat 4y ago

I think it's just fucked up these things needs to be mentioned at all. We're all fucking humans. Great job to these persons* * = a human being regarded as an individual

lern_too_spel 4y ago
That's what centuries of oppression does. It makes this rare. Hopefully, elevating these achievements in the community can make a difference. Ignoring that this problem exists certainly won't. If you don't care about broadening the pool of mathematicians, simply ignore the part of the article about that subject.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- thrashh 4y ago
  It doesn’t need to be mentioned though. I’m Asian if I read an Asian name doing something that Asians don’t normally do (like the recent accolades for Everything Everywhere), it’s going to inspire me. You don’t have to point it out. The people who need to hear it are not dumb. Mentioning it just sounds pandering and cringy.
  - lern_too_spel 4y ago
    Publicly stating that it doesn't matter sounds pandering and cringey to me. Pretending that you would be inspired by an Asian doing mathematics sounds even more pandering cringey. If the proof came from the adult sons of educated Asian immigrant parents in Boston, it would be far less newsworthy. For people who care about speeding up progress in mathematics, the fact that this comes from a marginalized group is worthy of mention to understand how to repeat it. For everybody else, ranting about how it doesn't matter is simply off-topic flamebait utilized by culture warriors and their dupes.
- steve76 4y ago
  [dead]