5 ms·

Nah I think something else is at play, as to why so many millionaires are in Switzerland. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_millio

Nah I think something else is at play, as to why so many millionaires are in Switzerland. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_millionaires https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_... USA demolishing most everyone else, as you'd expect if you own what you create. Almost 10% of 400 million people are millionaires in the USA! Insanely productive all things considered. Also kind of shockingly the USA has the most progressive tax system, I believe -- the vast majority of those paying are high earners, low earners pay barely any taxes and can save a lot.

than3 4y ago
A millionaire today is someone that had $100,000 roughly 10 years ago. Hardly comparable.
- __pache__ 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - than3 4y ago
    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debasement.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debasement.asp
    - __pache__ 4y ago
      [flagged]
- pgodzin 4y ago
  That's a 25% annual rate of return, where can I find that with my 100k?
  - satvikpendem 4y ago
    They're counting returns in the most recent bull market as well as currency inflation, their comment seems sarcastic.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
hiq 4y ago
> Almost 10% of 400 million people are millionaires in the USA! Insanely productive all things considered. The number of millionaires is poor proxy metric for productivity, because of inheritance for instance.
- __pache__ 4y ago
  ??? What
  - hiq 4y ago
    If a country has 100% of millionaires that inherited their wealth but haven't done anything since they're born, I wouldn't call it "productive".
    - __pache__ 4y ago
      They were able to retain and grow that wealth, awesome. ??? What % of millionaires inherited vs grew it themselves? Betchya it's like 80% self made lol.
pg938hkd 4y ago
I assume that’s a product of house price inflation. Or because you count mandatory retirement savings. If you did the same calculation in France for NPV of pension you would probably get a similar or better result
- __pache__ 4y ago
  USA gdp per capita $70k France gdp per capita $43k
  - pg938hkd 4y ago
    Ok but correct for taxes subtract healthcare, add npv of pensions, dental and child care. I think you would end up much closer maybe even ahead for France. Also mean per capital lies because you have to average in besos and musk. Median is a better metric
    - __pache__ 4y ago
      Having rich neighbors is great, gdp per Capita seems to be a nice measure. If you don't make a lot of money in USA you pay basically no taxes... cars are cheap (or were)... Big problem is govt being terrible with money and overbudensome with regulations, which reduces supply. Think about how many more doctors/specialists we'd have if systems weren't purposefully setup to be ridiculous. Look into what residency takes. Not everyone has to be an amazing incredible 80hr week doctor. We could easily double supply of doctors...
      - noelherrick 4y ago
        The American Medical Association restricts med student slots. You could say it’s government but it’s regulatory capture rather than government regulation. Remove Citizen’s United, close the revolving door, and fund congressional research offices so that legislators don’t have to depend on lobbyists for research and writing legislation.
        4y ago
pclmulqdq 4y ago
People in the USA who want to have a European-style welfare state don't realize that American high-earners already pay European levels of tax. The American lower and middle classes pay a lot less of their incomes - that would be the group that would have to pay for an American welfare state. That won't go over well...
- vc8f6vVV 4y ago
  It's not necessary about amount, but about distribution. Let's say a medical tax in Germany is 14.6% (correct me if I'm wrong), my medical insurance here in the US for a family of 2 is around 14% (yes, it's paid by my employer, but there is no free lunch and I consider it _my_ tax). The only problem here is that payment is fixed, so if I had 50% of what I have now (and that would be a median salary in my state) it would be 28%. Also if I lose my job I will have to pay it in full myself, from after-tax money. Unlike Germany. Oops. So I'm already paying on par with Germany (when I'm employed), and I would pay twice, of even triple of that if I was an average worker.
  - pclmulqdq 4y ago
    The tax rate in Germany is 42% on income over 62000 euros. That covers everything, but doesn't include any local or municipal taxes. The VAT is 19% on top of that. In other words, a 42% federal income tax plus (roughly) a 20% federal sales tax.
    - vc8f6vVV 4y ago
      You are conveniently leaving out payroll taxes which constitute another ~35%. So 42% becomes ~77%. 19% doesn't technically apply to the payroll, but it does apply when you buy something.
      - vc8f6vVV 4y ago
        Here's some comparison, but it is misleading when it comes to the US. Technically medical insurance (de facto mandatory) can be from ~15% to >25%, depending on the income. It's not reflected on the picture, so in reality tax burden in the US might even be more than in Belgium (VAT aside). https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Payroll_and_income_tax_by_country.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Payroll_...

than3 4y ago

A millionaire today is someone that had $100,000 roughly 10 years ago. Hardly comparable.

__pache__ 4y ago
[flagged]
- than3 4y ago
  https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debasement.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/debasement.asp
  - __pache__ 4y ago
    [flagged]
pgodzin 4y ago
That's a 25% annual rate of return, where can I find that with my 100k?
- satvikpendem 4y ago
  They're counting returns in the most recent bull market as well as currency inflation, their comment seems sarcastic.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

hiq 4y ago

> Almost 10% of 400 million people are millionaires in the USA! Insanely productive all things considered. The number of millionaires is poor proxy metric for productivity, because of inheritance for instance.

__pache__ 4y ago
??? What
- hiq 4y ago
  If a country has 100% of millionaires that inherited their wealth but haven't done anything since they're born, I wouldn't call it "productive".
  - __pache__ 4y ago
    They were able to retain and grow that wealth, awesome. ??? What % of millionaires inherited vs grew it themselves? Betchya it's like 80% self made lol.

pg938hkd 4y ago

I assume that’s a product of house price inflation. Or because you count mandatory retirement savings. If you did the same calculation in France for NPV of pension you would probably get a similar or better result

__pache__ 4y ago
USA gdp per capita $70k France gdp per capita $43k
- pg938hkd 4y ago
  Ok but correct for taxes subtract healthcare, add npv of pensions, dental and child care. I think you would end up much closer maybe even ahead for France. Also mean per capital lies because you have to average in besos and musk. Median is a better metric
  - __pache__ 4y ago
    Having rich neighbors is great, gdp per Capita seems to be a nice measure. If you don't make a lot of money in USA you pay basically no taxes... cars are cheap (or were)... Big problem is govt being terrible with money and overbudensome with regulations, which reduces supply. Think about how many more doctors/specialists we'd have if systems weren't purposefully setup to be ridiculous. Look into what residency takes. Not everyone has to be an amazing incredible 80hr week doctor. We could easily double supply of doctors...
    - noelherrick 4y ago
      The American Medical Association restricts med student slots. You could say it’s government but it’s regulatory capture rather than government regulation. Remove Citizen’s United, close the revolving door, and fund congressional research offices so that legislators don’t have to depend on lobbyists for research and writing legislation.
      - 4y ago

pclmulqdq 4y ago

People in the USA who want to have a European-style welfare state don't realize that American high-earners already pay European levels of tax. The American lower and middle classes pay a lot less of their incomes - that would be the group that would have to pay for an American welfare state. That won't go over well...

vc8f6vVV 4y ago
It's not necessary about amount, but about distribution. Let's say a medical tax in Germany is 14.6% (correct me if I'm wrong), my medical insurance here in the US for a family of 2 is around 14% (yes, it's paid by my employer, but there is no free lunch and I consider it _my_ tax). The only problem here is that payment is fixed, so if I had 50% of what I have now (and that would be a median salary in my state) it would be 28%. Also if I lose my job I will have to pay it in full myself, from after-tax money. Unlike Germany. Oops. So I'm already paying on par with Germany (when I'm employed), and I would pay twice, of even triple of that if I was an average worker.
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  The tax rate in Germany is 42% on income over 62000 euros. That covers everything, but doesn't include any local or municipal taxes. The VAT is 19% on top of that. In other words, a 42% federal income tax plus (roughly) a 20% federal sales tax.
  - vc8f6vVV 4y ago
    You are conveniently leaving out payroll taxes which constitute another ~35%. So 42% becomes ~77%. 19% doesn't technically apply to the payroll, but it does apply when you buy something.
    - vc8f6vVV 4y ago
      Here's some comparison, but it is misleading when it comes to the US. Technically medical insurance (de facto mandatory) can be from ~15% to >25%, depending on the income. It's not reflected on the picture, so in reality tax burden in the US might even be more than in Belgium (VAT aside). https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Payroll_and_income_tax_by_country.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Payroll_...