5 ms·

And then there's another post waiting to be written -- "Never Accept Counter Offers." I didn't heed this advice, and took a counter offer (doubling my salary a

And then there's another post waiting to be written -- "Never Accept Counter Offers." I didn't heed this advice, and took a counter offer (doubling my salary at the time). This seemed like a good deal. What did I turn down? 10,000 shares of Microsoft stock. In 1983. Oops...

cperciva 15y ago
Come on, you only missed out on 87 million dollars (assuming one share in 1983 = one share when Microsoft IPOed). It's not that bad... :-)
- shasta 15y ago
  You forgot to deduct his doubled salary.
  - glimcat 15y ago
    I think we can dismiss that as rounding error.
    - dredmorbius 15y ago
      That depends. Salary increases are frequently based on your existing base, so doubling salary in 1983 probably translates into an increased income stream since then, which would amount to a fair take (28 years of 100k income is $2.8 million). Presumably there have been other stock options since. If some of that income was saved and invested, there'd be some return on that as well. The Dow and NASDAQ are up about 1100% in this time (MSFT is up 29,900%). Interestingly, S&P 500 is up only 817% (greater diversification doesn't mean better returns). As with most financial comparisons, there are a number of things to consider. On balance, selling his soul to MSFT in 1983 would probably have been the better move. Coulda-woulda-shoulda's a tough game to play.
  - wisty 15y ago
    And any opportunities he would have had working for Microsoft.
larrys 15y ago
I think that's a great point and one of the problems that I have with some of the "learn everyday" info linked on hn. People think there are clear answers to things that in retrospect seem right or wrong decisions after things play out. Those 10,000 shares of Msft? Well what if you were working for Eagle Computer (I owned one of those and remember that day very well) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Computer
- joshu 15y ago
  There's more to it than financial considerations. People who accept counters are usually gone in a year anyway - they'd already decided to go, management has written them off in their minds, something like that.
  - angstrom 15y ago
    Looking for the stat, but it's at least an 80% chance they'll be gone in 2 years; either of their own accord or the company's. So if your boss ever pulls one of these maneuvers either get on their boss's good side or start looking for work yourself because there's about to be a shuffle.
    - reinhardt 15y ago
      80% chance of leaving within 2 years? How far is this from the average stay in any given job in IT these days? Except for my first job that I stayed for 3.5 years (mostly out of necessity at the time), all my others have been less than 2 years, be it by my own will, the company's will or both.
      - angstrom 15y ago
        Good point, I was thinking about that not long after I posted it. I think it had more to do with management shuffles than employee shuffles. Most stats I can find state it as 80-90% leaving in 6 months to 1 year which sounds right, often resuming their job hunt 90 days after receiving the counter. Counters rarely make sense. There's probably exceptions, but I've never seen any.
bkrausz 15y ago
For those curious, 1 share of MSFT in 1983 is ~= 288 shares today due to splitting, making this stock worth $87MM. Sorry Jeff, don't mean to rub it in. Just had to do some Googling (ironic, I know) and figured I'd save others the time.
- InclinedPlane 15y ago
  2,880,000 shares would be worth $87 million today. However, since 2003 (after the last stock split) MSFT stock has had dividends. In total those dividends have come to $6.75 per share, adding an additional $19.44 million for a grand total of $106.44 million.
  - philwelch 15y ago
    And if you sold your MSFT stock at its peak and invested all that money in Apple stock instead, you would be one rich motherfucker.
    - masklinn 15y ago
      You'd be worth a billion or two yeah (I'm not sure if the google and yahoo finance charts are split-adjusted, I'll assume they are in which case, since MSFT's peak corresponded to an AAPL high tide ($25 in December 1999, up from $4 in January 1998 and would fall to $7.5 by December 2000) and the ratio was ~2:1 (both stocks have split 2:1 since so that does not need to be taken in account) he'd own 5.76 million AAPL shares worth... $2.6bn (at the current $459 price))
MichaelApproved 15y ago
That also depends on what you do with the money from the raise. I don't know what that was but you could've invested it and made significant returns as well.
johnx123-up 15y ago
You may have lost million dollars, but you may not have earned these experiences. After all we all are going to die. So, in the end only the experiences will be counted.
- dragons 15y ago
  Yes, but you can buy a lot of other really excellent experiences with millions of dollars.
  - johnx123-up 15y ago
    You get those million dollars only today--not on that day he has taken right decision.
rorrr 15y ago
You still had made the right decision. Doubling your salary is not something many people would choose over some stock options.
- Drbble 15y ago
  I would love to give you some stock options in exchange for all your salary. PM me.
  - jrockway 15y ago
    Nice try. HN doesn't have PMs.
Drbble 15y ago
You don't know what would have happened to you at Microsoft. Anyone could be a billionaire if he had a (unique) time machine. And what would have happened to Visix?
charlieok 15y ago
but now you're the Amazon Web Services guy! That can't be too shabby...

cperciva 15y ago

Come on, you only missed out on 87 million dollars (assuming one share in 1983 = one share when Microsoft IPOed). It's not that bad... :-)

shasta 15y ago
You forgot to deduct his doubled salary.
- glimcat 15y ago
  I think we can dismiss that as rounding error.
  - dredmorbius 15y ago
    That depends. Salary increases are frequently based on your existing base, so doubling salary in 1983 probably translates into an increased income stream since then, which would amount to a fair take (28 years of 100k income is $2.8 million). Presumably there have been other stock options since. If some of that income was saved and invested, there'd be some return on that as well. The Dow and NASDAQ are up about 1100% in this time (MSFT is up 29,900%). Interestingly, S&P 500 is up only 817% (greater diversification doesn't mean better returns). As with most financial comparisons, there are a number of things to consider. On balance, selling his soul to MSFT in 1983 would probably have been the better move. Coulda-woulda-shoulda's a tough game to play.
- wisty 15y ago
  And any opportunities he would have had working for Microsoft.

larrys 15y ago

I think that's a great point and one of the problems that I have with some of the "learn everyday" info linked on hn. People think there are clear answers to things that in retrospect seem right or wrong decisions after things play out. Those 10,000 shares of Msft? Well what if you were working for Eagle Computer (I owned one of those and remember that day very well) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Computer

joshu 15y ago
There's more to it than financial considerations. People who accept counters are usually gone in a year anyway - they'd already decided to go, management has written them off in their minds, something like that.
- angstrom 15y ago
  Looking for the stat, but it's at least an 80% chance they'll be gone in 2 years; either of their own accord or the company's. So if your boss ever pulls one of these maneuvers either get on their boss's good side or start looking for work yourself because there's about to be a shuffle.
  - reinhardt 15y ago
    80% chance of leaving within 2 years? How far is this from the average stay in any given job in IT these days? Except for my first job that I stayed for 3.5 years (mostly out of necessity at the time), all my others have been less than 2 years, be it by my own will, the company's will or both.
    - angstrom 15y ago
      Good point, I was thinking about that not long after I posted it. I think it had more to do with management shuffles than employee shuffles. Most stats I can find state it as 80-90% leaving in 6 months to 1 year which sounds right, often resuming their job hunt 90 days after receiving the counter. Counters rarely make sense. There's probably exceptions, but I've never seen any.

bkrausz 15y ago

For those curious, 1 share of MSFT in 1983 is ~= 288 shares today due to splitting, making this stock worth $87MM. Sorry Jeff, don't mean to rub it in. Just had to do some Googling (ironic, I know) and figured I'd save others the time.

InclinedPlane 15y ago
2,880,000 shares would be worth $87 million today. However, since 2003 (after the last stock split) MSFT stock has had dividends. In total those dividends have come to $6.75 per share, adding an additional $19.44 million for a grand total of $106.44 million.
- philwelch 15y ago
  And if you sold your MSFT stock at its peak and invested all that money in Apple stock instead, you would be one rich motherfucker.
  - masklinn 15y ago
    You'd be worth a billion or two yeah (I'm not sure if the google and yahoo finance charts are split-adjusted, I'll assume they are in which case, since MSFT's peak corresponded to an AAPL high tide ($25 in December 1999, up from $4 in January 1998 and would fall to $7.5 by December 2000) and the ratio was ~2:1 (both stocks have split 2:1 since so that does not need to be taken in account) he'd own 5.76 million AAPL shares worth... $2.6bn (at the current $459 price))

MichaelApproved 15y ago

That also depends on what you do with the money from the raise. I don't know what that was but you could've invested it and made significant returns as well.

johnx123-up 15y ago

You may have lost million dollars, but you may not have earned these experiences. After all we all are going to die. So, in the end only the experiences will be counted.

dragons 15y ago
Yes, but you can buy a lot of other really excellent experiences with millions of dollars.
- johnx123-up 15y ago
  You get those million dollars only today--not on that day he has taken right decision.

rorrr 15y ago

You still had made the right decision. Doubling your salary is not something many people would choose over some stock options.

Drbble 15y ago
I would love to give you some stock options in exchange for all your salary. PM me.
- jrockway 15y ago
  Nice try. HN doesn't have PMs.

Drbble 15y ago

You don't know what would have happened to you at Microsoft. Anyone could be a billionaire if he had a (unique) time machine. And what would have happened to Visix?

charlieok 15y ago

but now you're the Amazon Web Services guy! That can't be too shabby...