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> I understand you're being sarcastic, but it isn't hard to realize that the compulsory veiling of women is objectively wrong. Just to be crystal clear here, I

> I understand you're being sarcastic, but it isn't hard to realize that the compulsory veiling of women is objectively wrong. Just to be crystal clear here, I find this behavior as abhorrent as you do. But to claim that any human behavior is "objectively wrong" is asinine. What's "wrong" and "right" just exists in our heads.

deleted 4y ago
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d-z-m 4y ago
I used the word "objectively" to close the door to moral relativism. However, I can defend the use of the word more thoroughly. I base my morality on the well-being of conscious creatures. What constitutes well-being is open to debate, but whatever it is, it will be facts about the state of the brain/physiology of conscious creatures in the physical universe. If you admit the physical universe is objective basis for measurement, actions that decrease a creatures well-being can be thought of as objectively wrong.
- mrshadowgoose 4y ago
  > What constitutes well-being is open to debate > actions that decrease a creatures well-being can be thought of as objectively wrong Which results in the "rightness" and "wrongness" of those actions being open to debate, and therefore subjective. > I base my morality on the well-being of conscious creatures. Same as my moral compass. But I don't pretend that my definition of "well-being" is objectively correct and universal.
  - d-z-m 4y ago
    > Which results in the "rightness" and "wrongness" of those actions being open to debate, and therefore subjective. Poor choice of words by me...what I meant to say is that the full scope of human well-being is not yet known. Whatever it ultimately _is_ isn't open to debate, as whatever constitutes well-being will be facts about how the human organism can either flourish or fail to flourish. If you can admit that a universe where every conscious being suffers as much as it possibly can for as long as it possibly can is bad, then the morality conversation can get off the ground. If the word "bad" is going to mean anything, it applies there. Those who want compulsory veiling and it's associated punishments are _wrong_ to want it. I contend that this is true independent of culture.

deleted 4y ago

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d-z-m 4y ago

I used the word "objectively" to close the door to moral relativism. However, I can defend the use of the word more thoroughly. I base my morality on the well-being of conscious creatures. What constitutes well-being is open to debate, but whatever it is, it will be facts about the state of the brain/physiology of conscious creatures in the physical universe. If you admit the physical universe is objective basis for measurement, actions that decrease a creatures well-being can be thought of as objectively wrong.

mrshadowgoose 4y ago
> What constitutes well-being is open to debate > actions that decrease a creatures well-being can be thought of as objectively wrong Which results in the "rightness" and "wrongness" of those actions being open to debate, and therefore subjective. > I base my morality on the well-being of conscious creatures. Same as my moral compass. But I don't pretend that my definition of "well-being" is objectively correct and universal.
- d-z-m 4y ago
  > Which results in the "rightness" and "wrongness" of those actions being open to debate, and therefore subjective. Poor choice of words by me...what I meant to say is that the full scope of human well-being is not yet known. Whatever it ultimately _is_ isn't open to debate, as whatever constitutes well-being will be facts about how the human organism can either flourish or fail to flourish. If you can admit that a universe where every conscious being suffers as much as it possibly can for as long as it possibly can is bad, then the morality conversation can get off the ground. If the word "bad" is going to mean anything, it applies there. Those who want compulsory veiling and it's associated punishments are _wrong_ to want it. I contend that this is true independent of culture.