15 ms·

To supercharge learning, look to play

211 points by dnetesn 4y ago

gumby 4y ago
It seems quite strange to me that schools in California seem to have eliminated recess (breaks for unstructured play outside). The rigid Gradgrinds have sabotaged their own efforts.
hosh 4y ago
I agree with this article, but this approach is incomplete. Animals, including humans, instinctively play to learn, both in free play and guided play. They work particularly well when the kid is young. I don’t find “play” to have a negative connotation (in contrast to “work”). My hobbies as an adult often start with play. However, there is something to be said about discipline. That also has some mixed connotations, so I will be clear. I am talking about discipline to mean the various inner psychology to focus, and sharpen one’s skills even through adversity. It includes what Angela Duckworth would call “grit”. Instilling this kind of discipline is not something I’d do at an early age, because it requires a sufficient level of mindfulness. Discipline is how one can become truly great … but it is play that allows for a kind of creativity that allows one to generalize from a solid foundation. You need both to attain mastery.
- frereubu 4y ago
  I'm in general agreement, but I'd nuance it by saying that you need to take into account the underlying enthusiasm of the person. If there's something I need to get good at for my job but I find it very boring, then that's going to take a quite a bit of discipline. However, there are some other things in my life that I've had to extert almost not discipline to learn (and, IMNSHO get very good at) because I have an innate enjoyment of the subject.
  - hosh 4y ago
    I guess what you said needs to be said. It’s not really play if you make someone do it. For my son, a lot of it is redirecting and guiding the things he is already trying to do. (For example, my toddler takes his clothes off, so my wife and I would then have him put it in the laundry basket. He thinks it is fun). As far as discipline goes, the value is being able to generate it from within. It’s a long grind, and it is not always fun.
- brightlancer 4y ago
  For a pithy quote, I once read discipline defined as, "Eliminating the bad to make room for the good, and eliminating the good to make room for the great." I think the conflation with "punishment" has made it very difficult to teach self-discipline to kids and young adults.
  - hosh 4y ago
    I learned “discipline” from the martial art world. Someone had pointed out to me that “discipline” shares the root word of “disciple”, so it is not really about punishment. With that meaning in mind, you don’t discipline a child so much as initiate a child into a discipline. Related things I learned from the martial art world are, “don’t cheat yourself”, and the idea of gongfu — mastery accumulated over time. And to bring some perspective to this, I also learned from the martial art world that “play” is crucial to develop the creative aspect of mastery. Some teachers will tell students to “play” with an idea, instead of running through a drill.
- 4dayworkweek4u 4y ago
  Also... what "play" means depends on intelligence. Different types want to "play" totally different games.
zachruss92 4y ago
As a developer who struggles with attention at times, I found this article really interesting. It's cool to see that there are playful solutions being developed that can help kids with ADHD learn and develop important skills. I'm excited to see that video games like NeuroRacer and EndeavorRx are being recognized as tools for cognitive development. It's great to see that playful learning environments are being promoted as important for building skills like collaboration, critical thinking, and creativity. Overall, I think it's a positive step towards supporting people with different learning styles and differences.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
fww 4y ago
For those interested in learning more about the link between Learning and Play, Project Zero from Harvard’s Graduate School of Education recently published a free e-book, “A Pedagogy of Play: Supporting playful learning in classrooms and schools.” It’s written as a guide to help bring playful learning into more traditional classroom settings. https://www.popatplay.org/post/launching-a-pedagogy-of-play-the-book https://www.popatplay.org/post/launching-a-pedagogy-of-play-...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rpastuszak 4y ago
If you’re interested in the subject you might enjoy reading my article dealing with procrastination, laziness and play: https://sonnet.io/posts/hummingbirds/ https://sonnet.io/posts/hummingbirds/ I don’t have ADHD but (for different reasons) I struggle with similar issues. I also run (free) coaching/ranting sessions for people with similar problems.
dchuk 4y ago
Sort of related... My wife is an educator (public 1st grade teacher in California). We just had the discussion that next year will likely be her last year in that profession. The stress is too high, support too low, kid's behavior issues are skyrocketing, parents are getting downright violent/threatening to the staff...it's just a fuckin mess. Many of her colleagues are leaving the profession. I expect there to be a growing deficit of teachers in the coming years. We're hoping we can get her working on education materials/maybe tutoring as a side business during her sabbatical (maybe retirement)? I bring this up because what I've been thinking about lately, is that with the recent explosion of Large Language Models and their inevitable rapid evolution, that to me it's pretty clear education needs to go down the path of AI-based, automatically customized and tuned and guided, computer based education for primary students. We're right around the corner from AI automatically generating highly interactive learning courses for children, that will fundamentally reshape the notion of classroom-based education. The path to adoption will probably be a mess because of the bureaucracy in education in general, but maybe that means more people will explore private/home-based education paths combined with outlets for social interaction for their kids (maybe there will be a boom in youth sports?) Random Saturday morning daydreaming here, curious what others think.
- tornato7 4y ago
  LLMs have already done wonders for my own learning and I think it will have a huge effect in highschool education and beyond. But below that level, the topics that are being taught are very standardized and have been studied to death, and there already exists a ton of interactive learning tools, toys, projects, and games. Teachers below middle-school level are mostly babysitting and trying to just get kids to learn the rules and pay attention. I am concerned for the education of the next generation of kids. Stories like yours are all too common.
  - operatingthetan 4y ago
    >LLMs have already done wonders for my own learning and I think it will have a huge effect in highschool education and beyond. Can you explain your process for using it? Is it done in a session or do you ask random questions throughout the day? Specific topics or general?
jiggywiggy 4y ago
There are hands all over the Himalayans rocks. I saw many in Kham. In Tibetan tradition it's a sign of meditative accomplishment to leave ones handprint in the rocks (and melt the ice). Hard to believe, but the hands are everywhere. Even if the stone is old hard to date the handprint itself. Ice melting has been studied and proven.
crawfordcomeaux 4y ago
Here are some webinar videos for deathclowning methodology, which is meant for playing with anything, especially the taboo. https://youtube.com/watch?v=gn-85vl-t5s https://youtube.com/watch?v=gn-85vl-t5s https://youtube.com/watch?v=yruvppEhBW0 https://youtube.com/watch?v=yruvppEhBW0 https://youtube.com/watch?v=WxPfCufFNZ8 https://youtube.com/watch?v=WxPfCufFNZ8
oytis 4y ago
> As Plato famously said, “You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” Is it a self-referential example of play?
- kbelder 4y ago
  Typo. He meant "Play-dough"
- 4dayworkweek4u 4y ago
  It's a fake quote... look it up.
  - oytis 4y ago
    I mean, it's pretty obviously fake, even without looking up. This article is a good example of where GPT would do better I think.
NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
When I was in the 5th grade or so, I had a Commodore VIC-20, then a C=64. These were, respectively, the second and third machines I learned to program in BASIC. One of my completed achievements was a sort of "typing tutor" game. I suppose I modeled it upon the game on my Casio calculator watch, and Missile Command. In my game, letters would fall from the sky, and pressing the correct key would destroy the letter and save Earth. My father belittled it because it was a game and so, it couldn't be serious learning. Well Dad, I seriously learned some BASIC in order to get to a finished product and do a literal tape-out. Raspberry Pi entered the chat
andrei_says_ 4y ago
The school system’s idea of making learning a serious thing is the very thing that disrupts the main function of the supercharged learning machines that children are. If we look at children’s play until 100 years ago it’s all learning and prep for life in different forms - forming social, motor, observation, improvisational etc skills. The gaming industry has hijacked this for its profit loop but ultimately games are about learning new skills and excelling at them. Force feeding anything makes it super unfun.
nutanc 4y ago
Learning by playing is the holy grail. This means that you will have fun and at the same time you develop a skill. What I have found is that play happens in different environments. For most kids now, these environments are virtual. One of the best example of playing through learning for my kid was him learning the multiplication tables playing Roblox[1] [1] https://www.roblox.com/games/10489578087/Multiplication-Game https://www.roblox.com/games/10489578087/Multiplication-Game
- DANmode 4y ago
  Mario Teaches Typing checking in here with more anecdotal evidence.
- ssd532 4y ago
  This is awesome. Is there any way in Roblox we can whitelist games? The problem with allowing Roblox is kids go there and do all sorts of other addictive games and activities and forget what they were there for.
the__alchemist 4y ago
Relevant Jblow video on video games and education: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWFScmtiC44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWFScmtiC44 Spoiler: He thinks Zachtronics games (Spacechem, Shenzio IO, Opus Magnum etc) do this very well. The point is they're not explicitly educational games about specific topics, but they teach problem-solving skills in an engaging way.
khazhoux 4y ago
> As Plato famously said, “You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” Not only is this not a quote from Plato's writings, it doesn't even bear a passing resemblance to anything from Plato.
- ChocMontePy 4y ago
  Good post on the quote: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/07/30/hour-play/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/07/30/hour-play/
amadeuspagel 4y ago
“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” That was actually Winston Churchill, not Plato: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/07/30/hour-play/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/07/30/hour-play/

211 points by dnetesn 4y ago

It seems quite strange to me that schools in California seem to have eliminated recess (breaks for unstructured play outside). The rigid Gradgrinds have sabotaged their own efforts.

hosh 4y ago

I agree with this article, but this approach is incomplete. Animals, including humans, instinctively play to learn, both in free play and guided play. They work particularly well when the kid is young. I don’t find “play” to have a negative connotation (in contrast to “work”). My hobbies as an adult often start with play. However, there is something to be said about discipline. That also has some mixed connotations, so I will be clear. I am talking about discipline to mean the various inner psychology to focus, and sharpen one’s skills even through adversity. It includes what Angela Duckworth would call “grit”. Instilling this kind of discipline is not something I’d do at an early age, because it requires a sufficient level of mindfulness. Discipline is how one can become truly great … but it is play that allows for a kind of creativity that allows one to generalize from a solid foundation. You need both to attain mastery.

frereubu 4y ago
I'm in general agreement, but I'd nuance it by saying that you need to take into account the underlying enthusiasm of the person. If there's something I need to get good at for my job but I find it very boring, then that's going to take a quite a bit of discipline. However, there are some other things in my life that I've had to extert almost not discipline to learn (and, IMNSHO get very good at) because I have an innate enjoyment of the subject.
- hosh 4y ago
  I guess what you said needs to be said. It’s not really play if you make someone do it. For my son, a lot of it is redirecting and guiding the things he is already trying to do. (For example, my toddler takes his clothes off, so my wife and I would then have him put it in the laundry basket. He thinks it is fun). As far as discipline goes, the value is being able to generate it from within. It’s a long grind, and it is not always fun.
brightlancer 4y ago
For a pithy quote, I once read discipline defined as, "Eliminating the bad to make room for the good, and eliminating the good to make room for the great." I think the conflation with "punishment" has made it very difficult to teach self-discipline to kids and young adults.
- hosh 4y ago
  I learned “discipline” from the martial art world. Someone had pointed out to me that “discipline” shares the root word of “disciple”, so it is not really about punishment. With that meaning in mind, you don’t discipline a child so much as initiate a child into a discipline. Related things I learned from the martial art world are, “don’t cheat yourself”, and the idea of gongfu — mastery accumulated over time. And to bring some perspective to this, I also learned from the martial art world that “play” is crucial to develop the creative aspect of mastery. Some teachers will tell students to “play” with an idea, instead of running through a drill.
4dayworkweek4u 4y ago
Also... what "play" means depends on intelligence. Different types want to "play" totally different games.

zachruss92 4y ago

As a developer who struggles with attention at times, I found this article really interesting. It's cool to see that there are playful solutions being developed that can help kids with ADHD learn and develop important skills. I'm excited to see that video games like NeuroRacer and EndeavorRx are being recognized as tools for cognitive development. It's great to see that playful learning environments are being promoted as important for building skills like collaboration, critical thinking, and creativity. Overall, I think it's a positive step towards supporting people with different learning styles and differences.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

fww 4y ago

For those interested in learning more about the link between Learning and Play, Project Zero from Harvard’s Graduate School of Education recently published a free e-book, “A Pedagogy of Play: Supporting playful learning in classrooms and schools.” It’s written as a guide to help bring playful learning into more traditional classroom settings. https://www.popatplay.org/post/launching-a-pedagogy-of-play-the-book https://www.popatplay.org/post/launching-a-pedagogy-of-play-...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rpastuszak 4y ago

If you’re interested in the subject you might enjoy reading my article dealing with procrastination, laziness and play: https://sonnet.io/posts/hummingbirds/ https://sonnet.io/posts/hummingbirds/ I don’t have ADHD but (for different reasons) I struggle with similar issues. I also run (free) coaching/ranting sessions for people with similar problems.

dchuk 4y ago

Sort of related... My wife is an educator (public 1st grade teacher in California). We just had the discussion that next year will likely be her last year in that profession. The stress is too high, support too low, kid's behavior issues are skyrocketing, parents are getting downright violent/threatening to the staff...it's just a fuckin mess. Many of her colleagues are leaving the profession. I expect there to be a growing deficit of teachers in the coming years. We're hoping we can get her working on education materials/maybe tutoring as a side business during her sabbatical (maybe retirement)? I bring this up because what I've been thinking about lately, is that with the recent explosion of Large Language Models and their inevitable rapid evolution, that to me it's pretty clear education needs to go down the path of AI-based, automatically customized and tuned and guided, computer based education for primary students. We're right around the corner from AI automatically generating highly interactive learning courses for children, that will fundamentally reshape the notion of classroom-based education. The path to adoption will probably be a mess because of the bureaucracy in education in general, but maybe that means more people will explore private/home-based education paths combined with outlets for social interaction for their kids (maybe there will be a boom in youth sports?) Random Saturday morning daydreaming here, curious what others think.

tornato7 4y ago
LLMs have already done wonders for my own learning and I think it will have a huge effect in highschool education and beyond. But below that level, the topics that are being taught are very standardized and have been studied to death, and there already exists a ton of interactive learning tools, toys, projects, and games. Teachers below middle-school level are mostly babysitting and trying to just get kids to learn the rules and pay attention. I am concerned for the education of the next generation of kids. Stories like yours are all too common.
- operatingthetan 4y ago
  >LLMs have already done wonders for my own learning and I think it will have a huge effect in highschool education and beyond. Can you explain your process for using it? Is it done in a session or do you ask random questions throughout the day? Specific topics or general?

jiggywiggy 4y ago

There are hands all over the Himalayans rocks. I saw many in Kham. In Tibetan tradition it's a sign of meditative accomplishment to leave ones handprint in the rocks (and melt the ice). Hard to believe, but the hands are everywhere. Even if the stone is old hard to date the handprint itself. Ice melting has been studied and proven.

crawfordcomeaux 4y ago

Here are some webinar videos for deathclowning methodology, which is meant for playing with anything, especially the taboo. https://youtube.com/watch?v=gn-85vl-t5s https://youtube.com/watch?v=gn-85vl-t5s https://youtube.com/watch?v=yruvppEhBW0 https://youtube.com/watch?v=yruvppEhBW0 https://youtube.com/watch?v=WxPfCufFNZ8 https://youtube.com/watch?v=WxPfCufFNZ8

oytis 4y ago

> As Plato famously said, “You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” Is it a self-referential example of play?

kbelder 4y ago
Typo. He meant "Play-dough"
4dayworkweek4u 4y ago
It's a fake quote... look it up.
- oytis 4y ago
  I mean, it's pretty obviously fake, even without looking up. This article is a good example of where GPT would do better I think.

NoZebra120vClip 4y ago

When I was in the 5th grade or so, I had a Commodore VIC-20, then a C=64. These were, respectively, the second and third machines I learned to program in BASIC. One of my completed achievements was a sort of "typing tutor" game. I suppose I modeled it upon the game on my Casio calculator watch, and Missile Command. In my game, letters would fall from the sky, and pressing the correct key would destroy the letter and save Earth. My father belittled it because it was a game and so, it couldn't be serious learning. Well Dad, I seriously learned some BASIC in order to get to a finished product and do a literal tape-out. Raspberry Pi entered the chat

andrei_says_ 4y ago

The school system’s idea of making learning a serious thing is the very thing that disrupts the main function of the supercharged learning machines that children are. If we look at children’s play until 100 years ago it’s all learning and prep for life in different forms - forming social, motor, observation, improvisational etc skills. The gaming industry has hijacked this for its profit loop but ultimately games are about learning new skills and excelling at them. Force feeding anything makes it super unfun.

nutanc 4y ago

Learning by playing is the holy grail. This means that you will have fun and at the same time you develop a skill. What I have found is that play happens in different environments. For most kids now, these environments are virtual. One of the best example of playing through learning for my kid was him learning the multiplication tables playing Roblox[1] [1] https://www.roblox.com/games/10489578087/Multiplication-Game https://www.roblox.com/games/10489578087/Multiplication-Game

DANmode 4y ago
Mario Teaches Typing checking in here with more anecdotal evidence.
ssd532 4y ago
This is awesome. Is there any way in Roblox we can whitelist games? The problem with allowing Roblox is kids go there and do all sorts of other addictive games and activities and forget what they were there for.

the__alchemist 4y ago

Relevant Jblow video on video games and education: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWFScmtiC44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWFScmtiC44 Spoiler: He thinks Zachtronics games (Spacechem, Shenzio IO, Opus Magnum etc) do this very well. The point is they're not explicitly educational games about specific topics, but they teach problem-solving skills in an engaging way.

khazhoux 4y ago

> As Plato famously said, “You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” Not only is this not a quote from Plato's writings, it doesn't even bear a passing resemblance to anything from Plato.

ChocMontePy 4y ago
Good post on the quote: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/07/30/hour-play/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/07/30/hour-play/

amadeuspagel 4y ago

“You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” That was actually Winston Churchill, not Plato: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/07/30/hour-play/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/07/30/hour-play/