4 ms·

The big issue is the transition. What happens when we still need around 30% employment to keep things going. Neither enough automation for everyone to take perm

The big issue is the transition. What happens when we still need around 30% employment to keep things going. Neither enough automation for everyone to take permanent holiday nor enough labour to go around for everyone to make the current way sustainable. I have no good answer for how to address this middle point.

carapace 4y ago
I think you start with a kind of non-profit member-owned "general automation corp." that supplies a level of basic QoL: clean water, food, shelter, clothing, energy, internet, medical, etc. per-member, at a set rate, say US$300 per month. That is, you pay in $300/mo. and that covers your rent, food, utilities, health insurance, etc. Over time the rate you pay falls to zero and remains there for the rest of your life. The task of the corporation is to supply the above goods and services efficiently, in environmentally regenerative ways, while meeting or exceeding minimum quality standards. - - - - It's kind of like a new economic regime developing within the old one, the way a crystal precipitates out of a saturated solution, eh? A sort of phase change?
- namarie 4y ago
  Why do it through a corporation rather than through government?
  - carapace 4y ago
    You don't have to convince people to vote for it, you can just get started right away with who ever is interested.
    - tekknik 4y ago
      So forced adoption? If they wanted it they would vote for it. You don’t see a problem with forcing people to do something they don’t want? This is scary, some people seem to be so gleeful at the idea of AI taking over everything they’re willing to resort to force to make it happen.
      - carapace 4y ago
        > So forced adoption? No, of course not. I don't understand what you are imagining. I'm talking about forming a non-profit mutual-benefit corporation and offering memberships which include services. Not forcing anyone to do or adopt anything. > You don’t see a problem with forcing people to do something they don’t want? I do see a problem with that. It's called "coercion" and I am against it in almost all of its forms. (I do recognize a pragmatic need for e.g. laws and police and the legal system, but by and large I'm in favor of freedom and self-determination for everyone.) > This is scary, some people seem to be so gleeful at the idea of AI taking over everything they’re willing to resort to force to make it happen. Again, I don't understand what you are imagining. I'm not sure how you got "forced adoption" from what I said, but I appreciate any feedback to improve my communications. Cheers!
        tekknik 4y ago
        Bring this back to the real world then, how can this happen? If it's possible then someone who doesn't care about profit would create this already. Therefore not possible without forced adoption.
        carapace 4y ago
        I'm still not getting what you're saying. What's "this" in your sentences?
        tekknik 4y ago
        I mean I can play stupid too. This = your statement.
        carapace 4y ago
        No need to play stupid. > Bring this back to the real world then, how can this happen? If it's possible then someone who doesn't care about profit would create this already. I'm doing it. I'm that "someone who doesn't care about profit". I literally went to start a normal corporation, saw this "non-profit mutual-benefit" corporate form, and realized that it aligned better with what I wanted to build, so I incorporated as that. The idea is to acquire some land, lay in a kind of ecologically harmonious high-tech neighborhood combined with a 3D printing shop and other facilities (electric, ISP, food forest, etc.) and rent-to-own or something to members. It's a kind of economic time travel to a Star Trek-style techno-utopia (to the extent that such a thing is even possible, given human nature, eh? But that's not my problem. I'm just trying to keep from messing up the environment and/or becoming a peasant, you know?) Check out https://www.riverbed-ranch.com/ https://www.riverbed-ranch.com/ for something like what I'm talking about (this is not my thing, but it's got some similarities.) These folks are basically treating Utah like a fresh alien planet and building a nice modern eco-friendly town out there.

carapace 4y ago

I think you start with a kind of non-profit member-owned "general automation corp." that supplies a level of basic QoL: clean water, food, shelter, clothing, energy, internet, medical, etc. per-member, at a set rate, say US$300 per month. That is, you pay in $300/mo. and that covers your rent, food, utilities, health insurance, etc. Over time the rate you pay falls to zero and remains there for the rest of your life. The task of the corporation is to supply the above goods and services efficiently, in environmentally regenerative ways, while meeting or exceeding minimum quality standards. - - - - It's kind of like a new economic regime developing within the old one, the way a crystal precipitates out of a saturated solution, eh? A sort of phase change?

namarie 4y ago
Why do it through a corporation rather than through government?
- carapace 4y ago
  You don't have to convince people to vote for it, you can just get started right away with who ever is interested.
  - tekknik 4y ago
    So forced adoption? If they wanted it they would vote for it. You don’t see a problem with forcing people to do something they don’t want? This is scary, some people seem to be so gleeful at the idea of AI taking over everything they’re willing to resort to force to make it happen.
    - carapace 4y ago
      > So forced adoption? No, of course not. I don't understand what you are imagining. I'm talking about forming a non-profit mutual-benefit corporation and offering memberships which include services. Not forcing anyone to do or adopt anything. > You don’t see a problem with forcing people to do something they don’t want? I do see a problem with that. It's called "coercion" and I am against it in almost all of its forms. (I do recognize a pragmatic need for e.g. laws and police and the legal system, but by and large I'm in favor of freedom and self-determination for everyone.) > This is scary, some people seem to be so gleeful at the idea of AI taking over everything they’re willing to resort to force to make it happen. Again, I don't understand what you are imagining. I'm not sure how you got "forced adoption" from what I said, but I appreciate any feedback to improve my communications. Cheers!
      - tekknik 4y ago
        Bring this back to the real world then, how can this happen? If it's possible then someone who doesn't care about profit would create this already. Therefore not possible without forced adoption.
        carapace 4y ago
        I'm still not getting what you're saying. What's "this" in your sentences?
        tekknik 4y ago
        I mean I can play stupid too. This = your statement.
        carapace 4y ago
        No need to play stupid. > Bring this back to the real world then, how can this happen? If it's possible then someone who doesn't care about profit would create this already. I'm doing it. I'm that "someone who doesn't care about profit". I literally went to start a normal corporation, saw this "non-profit mutual-benefit" corporate form, and realized that it aligned better with what I wanted to build, so I incorporated as that. The idea is to acquire some land, lay in a kind of ecologically harmonious high-tech neighborhood combined with a 3D printing shop and other facilities (electric, ISP, food forest, etc.) and rent-to-own or something to members. It's a kind of economic time travel to a Star Trek-style techno-utopia (to the extent that such a thing is even possible, given human nature, eh? But that's not my problem. I'm just trying to keep from messing up the environment and/or becoming a peasant, you know?) Check out https://www.riverbed-ranch.com/ https://www.riverbed-ranch.com/ for something like what I'm talking about (this is not my thing, but it's got some similarities.) These folks are basically treating Utah like a fresh alien planet and building a nice modern eco-friendly town out there.