5 ms·

Tesla hit with class action lawsuit over alleged privacy intrusion

71 points by VagueMag 4y ago

herodotus 4y ago
Disturbing: anyway to tell if my car (a BMW) is sending videos even if I have not checked the "agree" box?
- dogma1138 4y ago
  Is your car connected to any wireless networks with a sufficient bandwidth? Does your car even has a cab recorder?
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    > Is your car connected to any wireless networks with a sufficient bandwidth? Virtually all cars sold in the EU have had a mobile phone network uplink for years as part of the "eCall" mandate [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECall
    - dogma1138 4y ago
      eCall relies on SMS messages and it can only connect to the emergency cellular network.
      - mschuster91 4y ago
        Do we know what the modem attached to the ECU is actually capable of doing, and what it is being used for? These things get barely audited, it took years to reverse engineer the stuff in "dieselgate". And that, in any case, completely ignores all the car models that offer functionalities like Bluetooth SAP [1] where the car has its own modem that the phone forwards its credentials to - which a really high amount of cars has had for well over a decade now [1], or cars where the infotainment system has capabilities like Internet access on their own, capabilities on which eCall can piggyback. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM-Access-Profile https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM-Access-Profile
- cryptoegorophy 4y ago
  Just assume that it is guilty until proven innocent unlike people. I had an experience with google chrome leaking history data to a 3rd party company where I could confirm it was my data and I had all extensions disabled. I’ve rear privacy policy back then and found nothing about data being resold or shared. So if this thing (car, software, watch) is connected to the internet just assume that it is sharing your data and act accordingly. I still can’t believe people pay for the smart speakers.
LightBug1 4y ago
How long before we start doing the equivalent of what we do with laptops? Post-it Notes over car cameras?! (edit: actually, niche market opportunity for body-colour matching labels which cover cameras on cars. Get to it). The inevitability of this outcome is the most unsuprising thing about the article. Increasingly happy with my decision to run a 50 year old car. Luckily I don't need to use it as a daily driver so my pollution output is miniscule.
elforce002 4y ago
[flagged]
- thatguy0900 4y ago
  It's kind of difficult to even think it's a conspiracy when you can read his Twitter meltdowns in real time. Its pretty different then a jack ma disappearing type situation. Kanye was apparently also pretty crazy for a while before getting a unrestricted Twitter feed and outing himself. Who knows where elons reputation would be if he just kept to himself
- VagueMag 4y ago
  Ever heard of the Match King? This is not an uncommon pattern in history as late stage bull markets turn to bear and reveal which of Wall Street's favorites were just frauds riding a wave of liquidity the whole time. If I was to look for some kind of conspiratorial hints in Musk's past I'd probably focus on how he was allowed to skate for committing blatant multi-billion dollar securities fraud with the "funding secured," tweet, or what was going on with Jeffrey Epstein getting tours of SpaceX facilities and advising him on whom to pick for the Tesla board.
salawat 4y ago
One way to figure out what network traffic is being emitted is to Faraday the transmitter, then setup a receiver/decoding rig/false endpoint within said rig. I'd start by essentially cutting off connectivity and seeing what breaks to determine what functionality is highly dependent on net access. Then you start decoding the protocols. Odds are video isn't necessarily being sent realtime, but is being buffered; though Tesla, as I understand were madmen enough to go the route of straight up turning the bloody thing into a rolling smartphone on wheels. Most things with Lead-Acud batteries are probably not going to dedicate the charge to any type of long-term recording rig. Certainly not to the degree of a li-ion tray on wheels. Lexus owners at a minimum will lose their Remote functionality, but there may also be some clock related weirdness I haven't had a chance to look into, but have heard stories from customers about.

71 points by VagueMag 4y ago

herodotus 4y ago

Disturbing: anyway to tell if my car (a BMW) is sending videos even if I have not checked the "agree" box?

dogma1138 4y ago
Is your car connected to any wireless networks with a sufficient bandwidth? Does your car even has a cab recorder?
- mschuster91 4y ago
  > Is your car connected to any wireless networks with a sufficient bandwidth? Virtually all cars sold in the EU have had a mobile phone network uplink for years as part of the "eCall" mandate [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECall
  - dogma1138 4y ago
    eCall relies on SMS messages and it can only connect to the emergency cellular network.
    - mschuster91 4y ago
      Do we know what the modem attached to the ECU is actually capable of doing, and what it is being used for? These things get barely audited, it took years to reverse engineer the stuff in "dieselgate". And that, in any case, completely ignores all the car models that offer functionalities like Bluetooth SAP [1] where the car has its own modem that the phone forwards its credentials to - which a really high amount of cars has had for well over a decade now [1], or cars where the infotainment system has capabilities like Internet access on their own, capabilities on which eCall can piggyback. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM-Access-Profile https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM-Access-Profile
cryptoegorophy 4y ago
Just assume that it is guilty until proven innocent unlike people. I had an experience with google chrome leaking history data to a 3rd party company where I could confirm it was my data and I had all extensions disabled. I’ve rear privacy policy back then and found nothing about data being resold or shared. So if this thing (car, software, watch) is connected to the internet just assume that it is sharing your data and act accordingly. I still can’t believe people pay for the smart speakers.

LightBug1 4y ago

How long before we start doing the equivalent of what we do with laptops? Post-it Notes over car cameras?! (edit: actually, niche market opportunity for body-colour matching labels which cover cameras on cars. Get to it). The inevitability of this outcome is the most unsuprising thing about the article. Increasingly happy with my decision to run a 50 year old car. Luckily I don't need to use it as a daily driver so my pollution output is miniscule.

elforce002 4y ago

[flagged]

thatguy0900 4y ago
It's kind of difficult to even think it's a conspiracy when you can read his Twitter meltdowns in real time. Its pretty different then a jack ma disappearing type situation. Kanye was apparently also pretty crazy for a while before getting a unrestricted Twitter feed and outing himself. Who knows where elons reputation would be if he just kept to himself
VagueMag 4y ago
Ever heard of the Match King? This is not an uncommon pattern in history as late stage bull markets turn to bear and reveal which of Wall Street's favorites were just frauds riding a wave of liquidity the whole time. If I was to look for some kind of conspiratorial hints in Musk's past I'd probably focus on how he was allowed to skate for committing blatant multi-billion dollar securities fraud with the "funding secured," tweet, or what was going on with Jeffrey Epstein getting tours of SpaceX facilities and advising him on whom to pick for the Tesla board.

salawat 4y ago

One way to figure out what network traffic is being emitted is to Faraday the transmitter, then setup a receiver/decoding rig/false endpoint within said rig. I'd start by essentially cutting off connectivity and seeing what breaks to determine what functionality is highly dependent on net access. Then you start decoding the protocols. Odds are video isn't necessarily being sent realtime, but is being buffered; though Tesla, as I understand were madmen enough to go the route of straight up turning the bloody thing into a rolling smartphone on wheels. Most things with Lead-Acud batteries are probably not going to dedicate the charge to any type of long-term recording rig. Certainly not to the degree of a li-ion tray on wheels. Lexus owners at a minimum will lose their Remote functionality, but there may also be some clock related weirdness I haven't had a chance to look into, but have heard stories from customers about.