4 ms·

As an example, take a look at the difference in attire between men’s and women’s volleyball and beach volleyball. Also men’s and women’s track.

stakhanov 4y ago
I don't understand why this has to be a gender issue, when there's such an obvious solution: Just don't have rules on uniforms at all: Prescribe team colors and let athletes pick whatever style of apparel they want. Body image issues apply to both genders. As someone who doesn't watch volleyball, my only association with men and volleyball is the volleyball scene in Top Gun, which, in my perception, is actually a great example of how men, too, are sometimes sexually objectified in the media. It's just that men being sexually objectified has different cultural connotations, which makes it less of an issue for men.
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> men’s and women’s volleyball and beach volleyball As a former volleyball and beach volley professional player, albeit not at the highest levels: this is a false argument and often in bad faith. There have been drastic changes over the decades in the volleyball uniforms, especially for women. Sport gear evolved enormously, female players in the late 80s (the oldest I can remember watching in person) wore bodysuits similar to those gymnasts use and a t-shirt on that. Now they wear much longer shorts, like swimmers do. Men wore very short shorts, compared to the NBA style that they use now. The attire has always been fit to the body to avoid involuntary net invasions. There was a time when the players used baggy uniforms and it caused a lot of issues. Men now wear skintight sleeveless t-shirt (almost tank tops) because they cause less friction on the shoulders. They are also required to tuck them in, again, to avoid fouls. Nowadays the two uniforms are very similar, except the shorts, because men genitalia are different from women's, and, especially, if it's about people jumping up and down constantly, you do not want to show too clearly what's actually happening down there in television. Beach volley it's another story entirely, when the sport started on California beaches players dressed in the surfer's fashion, men and women alike. Soon women realized that having the literal sand in your unders during a game is quite uncomfortable and opted for more succinct swimsuits, where less sand could deposit, while men where stuck with their surf shorts, because, again, men in speedos jumping up and down and rolling in the sand, is not exactly viewer advisory safe. To put it in another way, players could go and wear whatever they like, but rest assured that uniforms are designed to maximize performances, not looks. There's a reason why full body swimsuits are banned from professional swimming competitions, and it's not because "someone in charge" wants to show more naked skin to the audience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LZR_Racer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LZR_Racer edit: grammar
- OldGuyInTheClub 4y ago
  The international volleyball governing body intentionally upped the sex appeal side of things in the mid 1990s. https://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/30/sports/IHT-for-volleyballs-guru-sex-appeal-is-key-to-future.html https://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/30/sports/IHT-for-volleyball... "For Volleyball's Guru, Sex Appeal Is Key to Future" ..."Over the course of the monthlong competition, federation officials — at Acosta's insistence — cajoled, fined and finally paid off teams to conform to the new dress code. The final bit of business at the championships was not the presentation of the winner's trophy, but the most fashionable team award as judged by an expert panel — headed by Acosta."...
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    this is how female volleyball players dressed in 1980 - pre Acosta era. https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/gazette.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/f/d6/fd6a1e88-d75e-5b8d-8405-696a3ba0a1e2/5b334a3503041.image.jpg?crop=1269%2C1269%2C181%2C0&resize=1269%2C1269&order=crop%2Cresize https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/gazette.com/con... I can't see much difference with later periods. Acosta is the man that made volleyball the hugely popular sport it is today on screen, of course he wanted teams to be fashionable and appealing to the audience, just like I want my F1 cars to look beautiful and aggressive and the pilots to be all around cool people with the winner vibe. And that's why Formula-E it's not very popular: cars are ugly and slow and pilots are mostly former mid-low-never-won-a-race field drivers from other more important categories. But if some team for any reason developed an uniform a bit less fashionable, but that gave even the slightest advantage in terms of performances, competitors would have copied them verbatim in the blink of an eye. The best way to be sex appealing is winning.
    - OldGuyInTheClub 4y ago
      He brought in the mandatory high-cut bikini bottoms for the women beach players as was described in the NYT article and many others. If you're defending Acosta and his notorious practices, we have nothing further to discuss.

stakhanov 4y ago

I don't understand why this has to be a gender issue, when there's such an obvious solution: Just don't have rules on uniforms at all: Prescribe team colors and let athletes pick whatever style of apparel they want. Body image issues apply to both genders. As someone who doesn't watch volleyball, my only association with men and volleyball is the volleyball scene in Top Gun, which, in my perception, is actually a great example of how men, too, are sometimes sexually objectified in the media. It's just that men being sexually objectified has different cultural connotations, which makes it less of an issue for men.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago

> men’s and women’s volleyball and beach volleyball As a former volleyball and beach volley professional player, albeit not at the highest levels: this is a false argument and often in bad faith. There have been drastic changes over the decades in the volleyball uniforms, especially for women. Sport gear evolved enormously, female players in the late 80s (the oldest I can remember watching in person) wore bodysuits similar to those gymnasts use and a t-shirt on that. Now they wear much longer shorts, like swimmers do. Men wore very short shorts, compared to the NBA style that they use now. The attire has always been fit to the body to avoid involuntary net invasions. There was a time when the players used baggy uniforms and it caused a lot of issues. Men now wear skintight sleeveless t-shirt (almost tank tops) because they cause less friction on the shoulders. They are also required to tuck them in, again, to avoid fouls. Nowadays the two uniforms are very similar, except the shorts, because men genitalia are different from women's, and, especially, if it's about people jumping up and down constantly, you do not want to show too clearly what's actually happening down there in television. Beach volley it's another story entirely, when the sport started on California beaches players dressed in the surfer's fashion, men and women alike. Soon women realized that having the literal sand in your unders during a game is quite uncomfortable and opted for more succinct swimsuits, where less sand could deposit, while men where stuck with their surf shorts, because, again, men in speedos jumping up and down and rolling in the sand, is not exactly viewer advisory safe. To put it in another way, players could go and wear whatever they like, but rest assured that uniforms are designed to maximize performances, not looks. There's a reason why full body swimsuits are banned from professional swimming competitions, and it's not because "someone in charge" wants to show more naked skin to the audience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LZR_Racer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LZR_Racer edit: grammar

OldGuyInTheClub 4y ago
The international volleyball governing body intentionally upped the sex appeal side of things in the mid 1990s. https://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/30/sports/IHT-for-volleyballs-guru-sex-appeal-is-key-to-future.html https://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/30/sports/IHT-for-volleyball... "For Volleyball's Guru, Sex Appeal Is Key to Future" ..."Over the course of the monthlong competition, federation officials — at Acosta's insistence — cajoled, fined and finally paid off teams to conform to the new dress code. The final bit of business at the championships was not the presentation of the winner's trophy, but the most fashionable team award as judged by an expert panel — headed by Acosta."...
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  this is how female volleyball players dressed in 1980 - pre Acosta era. https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/gazette.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/f/d6/fd6a1e88-d75e-5b8d-8405-696a3ba0a1e2/5b334a3503041.image.jpg?crop=1269%2C1269%2C181%2C0&resize=1269%2C1269&order=crop%2Cresize https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/gazette.com/con... I can't see much difference with later periods. Acosta is the man that made volleyball the hugely popular sport it is today on screen, of course he wanted teams to be fashionable and appealing to the audience, just like I want my F1 cars to look beautiful and aggressive and the pilots to be all around cool people with the winner vibe. And that's why Formula-E it's not very popular: cars are ugly and slow and pilots are mostly former mid-low-never-won-a-race field drivers from other more important categories. But if some team for any reason developed an uniform a bit less fashionable, but that gave even the slightest advantage in terms of performances, competitors would have copied them verbatim in the blink of an eye. The best way to be sex appealing is winning.
  - OldGuyInTheClub 4y ago
    He brought in the mandatory high-cut bikini bottoms for the women beach players as was described in the NYT article and many others. If you're defending Acosta and his notorious practices, we have nothing further to discuss.