4 ms·

Just hurry up and automate everyone's jobs so we can get UBI

sveme 4y ago
But that would require that we start taxing companies far more and stop the global tax evasion mechanisms. I fear automation is just going to further increase inequality and devastate the middle class. But that has been predicted for every new increase in automation, so maybe we‘ll be wrong again.
- brokencode 4y ago
  If everybody is unemployed, then we’ll have plenty of time to to protest and demand major social changes. Hopefully we will have enough leverage to actually make it happen.
  - bitL 4y ago
    That only works when you aren't starved already. Many in 3rd world countries are experiencing it right now.
    - danaris 4y ago
      Yes, and guess who is posited to have their jobs disrupted by LLMs? Knowledge workers. Programmers. White collar workers. Y'know, the ones least likely to be starving before they get replaced by a glorified autocorrect.
- shagie 4y ago
  > But that would require that we start taxing companies far more Instead of thinking of things like "payroll tax" and such being a tax on humans - change it to a tax on (for lack of a better word) productivity. Tax the robots. https://news.mit.edu/2022/robot-tax-income-inequality-1221 https://news.mit.edu/2022/robot-tax-income-inequality-1221 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_tax https://fortune.com/2023/02/21/bernie-sanders-bill-gates-robot-tax-automation-job-threat/ https://fortune.com/2023/02/21/bernie-sanders-bill-gates-rob... ( https://archive.is/Y90NU https://archive.is/Y90NU )
  - sveme 4y ago
    Wouldn‘t this be a tax on capital, in the end? In the end, we might reach the marxist stage of history - we should all own the robots that produce our stuff.
notjtrig 4y ago
That's not how capitalism works, white papers show the world's elite are well aware the singularity marks the beginning of a new civilization, humans would be lucky to get a supporting roll.
welshwelsh 4y ago
That's not what's going to happen. To benefit from automation, you need to take the initiative to integrate automation into your own workflow. The idea that someone else will automate your job, but you will somehow benefit is a fantasy. If we do get UBI, it won't replace lost wages from losing your job. Most of that money will go to the team at your company who set up GPT to do your work and the rest will be distributed among shareholders.
- danaris 4y ago
  > To benefit from automation, you need to take the initiative to integrate automation into your own workflow. The idea that someone else will automate your job, but you will somehow benefit is a fantasy. This is Calvinist "only those who work deserve to live" bullshit. > If we do get UBI, it won't replace lost wages from losing your job. Most of that money will go to the team at your company who set up GPT to do your work and the rest will be distributed among shareholders. And this just doesn't make sense. Do you know what "UBI" even means? By definition, it goes to the people. All of them. Universally, even. Even if your claim is that somehow your UBI will be sucked up by inflated costs, I don't see how it follows that it goes to your company.
ChatGTP 4y ago
No
abootstrapper 4y ago
Would be nice, but the way things are going, fascism and plutocracy seem just as likely.
rvz 4y ago
I don't think you are even serious, because if you were you would quickly realize that: Every single UBI experiment that has been tried has ended in failure. It is borderline insanity to retry such an experiment and expecting a different result without bankrupting an entire country just for those sitting around doing nothing.

But that would require that we start taxing companies far more and stop the global tax evasion mechanisms. I fear automation is just going to further increase inequality and devastate the middle class. But that has been predicted for every new increase in automation, so maybe we‘ll be wrong again.

brokencode 4y ago
If everybody is unemployed, then we’ll have plenty of time to to protest and demand major social changes. Hopefully we will have enough leverage to actually make it happen.
- bitL 4y ago
  That only works when you aren't starved already. Many in 3rd world countries are experiencing it right now.
  - danaris 4y ago
    Yes, and guess who is posited to have their jobs disrupted by LLMs? Knowledge workers. Programmers. White collar workers. Y'know, the ones least likely to be starving before they get replaced by a glorified autocorrect.
shagie 4y ago
> But that would require that we start taxing companies far more Instead of thinking of things like "payroll tax" and such being a tax on humans - change it to a tax on (for lack of a better word) productivity. Tax the robots. https://news.mit.edu/2022/robot-tax-income-inequality-1221 https://news.mit.edu/2022/robot-tax-income-inequality-1221 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_tax https://fortune.com/2023/02/21/bernie-sanders-bill-gates-robot-tax-automation-job-threat/ https://fortune.com/2023/02/21/bernie-sanders-bill-gates-rob... ( https://archive.is/Y90NU https://archive.is/Y90NU )
- sveme 4y ago
  Wouldn‘t this be a tax on capital, in the end? In the end, we might reach the marxist stage of history - we should all own the robots that produce our stuff.

notjtrig 4y ago

That's not how capitalism works, white papers show the world's elite are well aware the singularity marks the beginning of a new civilization, humans would be lucky to get a supporting roll.

welshwelsh 4y ago

That's not what's going to happen. To benefit from automation, you need to take the initiative to integrate automation into your own workflow. The idea that someone else will automate your job, but you will somehow benefit is a fantasy. If we do get UBI, it won't replace lost wages from losing your job. Most of that money will go to the team at your company who set up GPT to do your work and the rest will be distributed among shareholders.

danaris 4y ago
> To benefit from automation, you need to take the initiative to integrate automation into your own workflow. The idea that someone else will automate your job, but you will somehow benefit is a fantasy. This is Calvinist "only those who work deserve to live" bullshit. > If we do get UBI, it won't replace lost wages from losing your job. Most of that money will go to the team at your company who set up GPT to do your work and the rest will be distributed among shareholders. And this just doesn't make sense. Do you know what "UBI" even means? By definition, it goes to the people. All of them. Universally, even. Even if your claim is that somehow your UBI will be sucked up by inflated costs, I don't see how it follows that it goes to your company.

ChatGTP 4y ago

abootstrapper 4y ago

Would be nice, but the way things are going, fascism and plutocracy seem just as likely.

rvz 4y ago

I don't think you are even serious, because if you were you would quickly realize that: Every single UBI experiment that has been tried has ended in failure. It is borderline insanity to retry such an experiment and expecting a different result without bankrupting an entire country just for those sitting around doing nothing.