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I recently updated the firmware on an MSI motherboard and since then machine suffers from occasional memory errors. Could be just by coincidence, but the timing

I recently updated the firmware on an MSI motherboard and since then machine suffers from occasional memory errors. Could be just by coincidence, but the timing was very close. Zero problems for months (probably years), first problem 4 hours after the upgrade. Downgraded later to the previous firmware version, but that did not change anything anymore.

dspillett 4y ago
Could be that the upgrade reset timing/other parameters, or attempted to optimise or overclock them, so they are no longer well suited for the ram you have installed, and that the downgrade did not reset then back to what they were previously. Otherwise it probably is coincidence.
- usr1106 4y ago
  That's actually true. DMI previously claimed "Configured Memory Speed: 3200 MT/s" and after the first upgrade "Configured Memory Speed: 2133 MT/s". That did not return after BIOS downgrade. I was first concerned that my builds might have gotten slower. But it was certainly no drastic if at all. So I forgot about the whole thing because the (lack of) reliability has become a much bigger concern. I have never practiced any overclocking. But how a system running significantly slower could be less stable exceeds my imagination.
  - dspillett 4y ago
    > But how a system running significantly slower could be less stable exceeds my imagination. Anything timing related can be quite finicky. Often it isn't the absolute speeds that is an issue but how that interacts with the signalling frequencies of everything else (CPU cores & cache timings, any other bus or participants on it, …) and you might get stable results by tweaking those. Also latency settings could be affected similarly. And the voltage range in which RAM and other components are stable at will vary on workload and signalling frequency. You may even find that your RAM doesn't officially support that speed and so its batches are never tested with those settings (or are and have been found to be less stable): the setup your upgrade changed to could be off-spec via under-clocking. That is why I tend to stay away from over-clocking: if you are not lucky enough to hit a sweet spot first time you can spend a great many hours trying to find a combination of factors that both gets gains and remains stable.
    - usr1106 4y ago
      Looking into https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_presence_detect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_presence_detect a bit more after the BIOS upgrade the memory is clearly configured at SPD speeds. Maybe A-XMP was previously enabled by the first user (an employee who quit) or the factory. At least on DMI level it looks like that. Why SPD would work less reliably is strange, but as you say complicated stuff is complicated... Enabled A-XMP now and waiting for the next crash (hopefully in vain). Sorry, for the digression. I doubt I have a compromised BIOS, at least I download it from their support and not from any shady source. But the topic made me looking in this problem again, and maybe understand more.
  - sudosysgen 4y ago
    If the system loaded the wrong profile, it may also be undervolting the memory or running tight timings. I recommend manually setting the correct memory settings. What you're describing is something I've seen happen often and I fixed it that way.

dspillett 4y ago

Could be that the upgrade reset timing/other parameters, or attempted to optimise or overclock them, so they are no longer well suited for the ram you have installed, and that the downgrade did not reset then back to what they were previously. Otherwise it probably is coincidence.

usr1106 4y ago
That's actually true. DMI previously claimed "Configured Memory Speed: 3200 MT/s" and after the first upgrade "Configured Memory Speed: 2133 MT/s". That did not return after BIOS downgrade. I was first concerned that my builds might have gotten slower. But it was certainly no drastic if at all. So I forgot about the whole thing because the (lack of) reliability has become a much bigger concern. I have never practiced any overclocking. But how a system running significantly slower could be less stable exceeds my imagination.
- dspillett 4y ago
  > But how a system running significantly slower could be less stable exceeds my imagination. Anything timing related can be quite finicky. Often it isn't the absolute speeds that is an issue but how that interacts with the signalling frequencies of everything else (CPU cores & cache timings, any other bus or participants on it, …) and you might get stable results by tweaking those. Also latency settings could be affected similarly. And the voltage range in which RAM and other components are stable at will vary on workload and signalling frequency. You may even find that your RAM doesn't officially support that speed and so its batches are never tested with those settings (or are and have been found to be less stable): the setup your upgrade changed to could be off-spec via under-clocking. That is why I tend to stay away from over-clocking: if you are not lucky enough to hit a sweet spot first time you can spend a great many hours trying to find a combination of factors that both gets gains and remains stable.
  - usr1106 4y ago
    Looking into https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_presence_detect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_presence_detect a bit more after the BIOS upgrade the memory is clearly configured at SPD speeds. Maybe A-XMP was previously enabled by the first user (an employee who quit) or the factory. At least on DMI level it looks like that. Why SPD would work less reliably is strange, but as you say complicated stuff is complicated... Enabled A-XMP now and waiting for the next crash (hopefully in vain). Sorry, for the digression. I doubt I have a compromised BIOS, at least I download it from their support and not from any shady source. But the topic made me looking in this problem again, and maybe understand more.
- sudosysgen 4y ago
  If the system loaded the wrong profile, it may also be undervolting the memory or running tight timings. I recommend manually setting the correct memory settings. What you're describing is something I've seen happen often and I fixed it that way.