4 ms·

Well there's quite a lot here that's just flat wrong, but you get the gist of some of it. To clarify, Computers can't pass turing tests because the answer is d

by than3 4y ago

Well there's quite a lot here that's just flat wrong, but you get the gist of some of it. To clarify, Computers can't pass turing tests because the answer is divergent, or in other words has multiple possible answers. There may be some incompleteness issues as well. Computers require determinism as a system's property to function and do work. It can't do work if there is more than one path, or single series of steps given the same state inputs.

Thiez 4y ago
I see no reason why nondeterminism is a requirement for consciousness. There are multiple possible answers to questions "Would you like a cup of tea?" (such as "Yes", "No", and "Only if you put some sugar in it") but at any point in time I'm only going to give one of those answers, not all of them, and I like to think that if you could rewind time to just after asking the question, I would give the same answer every time. Besides, computers can have a source of true randomness. This means they are no longer a Turing Machine, but they never were anyway (no infinite tape).
- than3 4y ago
  You really have no idea how computers work, and even if I explained how you are mistaken I doubt you'd understand it. If you want to correct that mistake I'd suggest taking a Computer Science Compiler Design course, its the material normally covered in what's known as the dragon book. > source of true randomness ... This means they are no longer a Turing Machine Wishful thinking doesn't make it so, I've included an example below, also PRNGs even with random inputs to help with randomness aren't true randomness. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probabilistic_Turing_machine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probabilistic_Turing_machine
  - Thiez 4y ago
    I have a masters degree in computer science. Perhaps it is your argument that doesn't make sense, or is not communicated well?
    - than3 4y ago
      > I have a masters degree in computer science In the interest of not sniping, I'll put it plainly. You clearly do not know what you are supposed to know if that were true. There's no point in me talking to you any further, you've lost all credibility.
colonCapitalDee 4y ago
> Well there's quite a lot here that's just flat wrong, but you get the gist of some of it. If you're going to be condescending the least you could do is be correct. > Computers can't pass turing tests because the answer is divergent, or in other words has multiple possible answers. This is wrong. Computers can absolutely pass Turing tests; an obvious example is ChatGPT. Not sure what you mean by divergent, to my knowledge it's not a technical term in this context. Given that you use it as an explanation for an obviously false statement I'm not going to even try and interpret it. I've seen you arguing in with other people this thread. Instead of claiming that others have no credibility you should instead examine your own. FYI, probabilistic Turing machines and Turing machines are the same in the same way that Javascript and Java are the same.

by than3 4y ago

Thiez 4y ago

I see no reason why nondeterminism is a requirement for consciousness. There are multiple possible answers to questions "Would you like a cup of tea?" (such as "Yes", "No", and "Only if you put some sugar in it") but at any point in time I'm only going to give one of those answers, not all of them, and I like to think that if you could rewind time to just after asking the question, I would give the same answer every time. Besides, computers can have a source of true randomness. This means they are no longer a Turing Machine, but they never were anyway (no infinite tape).

than3 4y ago
You really have no idea how computers work, and even if I explained how you are mistaken I doubt you'd understand it. If you want to correct that mistake I'd suggest taking a Computer Science Compiler Design course, its the material normally covered in what's known as the dragon book. > source of true randomness ... This means they are no longer a Turing Machine Wishful thinking doesn't make it so, I've included an example below, also PRNGs even with random inputs to help with randomness aren't true randomness. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probabilistic_Turing_machine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probabilistic_Turing_machine
- Thiez 4y ago
  I have a masters degree in computer science. Perhaps it is your argument that doesn't make sense, or is not communicated well?
  - than3 4y ago
    > I have a masters degree in computer science In the interest of not sniping, I'll put it plainly. You clearly do not know what you are supposed to know if that were true. There's no point in me talking to you any further, you've lost all credibility.

colonCapitalDee 4y ago

> Well there's quite a lot here that's just flat wrong, but you get the gist of some of it. If you're going to be condescending the least you could do is be correct. > Computers can't pass turing tests because the answer is divergent, or in other words has multiple possible answers. This is wrong. Computers can absolutely pass Turing tests; an obvious example is ChatGPT. Not sure what you mean by divergent, to my knowledge it's not a technical term in this context. Given that you use it as an explanation for an obviously false statement I'm not going to even try and interpret it. I've seen you arguing in with other people this thread. Instead of claiming that others have no credibility you should instead examine your own. FYI, probabilistic Turing machines and Turing machines are the same in the same way that Javascript and Java are the same.