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"Without free will, there can be no real love." What? This seems totally backwards. Author thinks that real love comes from free conscious decisiomaking? Like

"Without free will, there can be no real love." What? This seems totally backwards. Author thinks that real love comes from free conscious decisiomaking? Like freely choosing which model of car to buy? I almost laughed out loud when I got to the subhead "A Childish Conversation". Some points are okay, but overall this is just not a well argued piece. Strikes me as just conveying numerous fairly boring grievances.

shswkna 4y ago
There is merit in trying to understand where the author is coming from (which I am choosing to do), as opposed to critiquing the piece from the framework of contemporary society (which is also a valid approach). > "Without free will, there can be no real love." This reveals something about the author and his possible life experiences. When it comes to love between humans, what does love actually mean? We ”fall” in love, which is largely based on chemical and physical characteristics. Correct, it is debatable how much choice there is. I am still to meet a couple that after 20 years together, still feel like they have fallen in love, in the original sense. At some stage, there comes a point where it feels like a choice is made: Do I appreciate the person for whom they are? Do I choose to get hung up on their annoying characteristics, or do I make an effort to see them for who they are? Do I give them the security to reveal their unguarded version of themselves? And so on. This applies to all human relationships, even to one’s children. We can close our minds and avoid or hate, or we can overcome and seek. That is what I think the author meant with love. “Falling in love”, is not the kind of love that is chosen.
- cypherpunks01 4y ago
  Thanks for the perspective, you make some good points on the evolution and changes of love that can become more of a free choice with time.
fsckboy 4y ago
real love without free will is like two magnets attracting, i.e. nothing to glorify. I'm not saying that I or OP have solved any thorny free will philosophical problem, but the first step is recognizing the problem. If you believe two magnets attracting is what love is, that's fine, but promise me you'll tell that to your spouse in your vows and on every anniversary and make sure your kids don't start to imagine that you are anything but a choiceless automaton in your feelings toward them. Please don't use chatGPT to write their birthday cards, chatGPT is liable to convey feelings.
- cypherpunks01 4y ago
  Promise I will henceforth cease to write their bday cards using GPT : )
- Brian_K_White 4y ago
  Even "nothing to glorify" leaves room to interpret poorly. I would say it is fine to revel in, but no special virtue. If it really is beyond choice, then it's no better than a form of lust. It can still be fine to experience and engage in, but it doesn't make the participants heros or good people, or bad.

shswkna 4y ago

There is merit in trying to understand where the author is coming from (which I am choosing to do), as opposed to critiquing the piece from the framework of contemporary society (which is also a valid approach). > "Without free will, there can be no real love." This reveals something about the author and his possible life experiences. When it comes to love between humans, what does love actually mean? We ”fall” in love, which is largely based on chemical and physical characteristics. Correct, it is debatable how much choice there is. I am still to meet a couple that after 20 years together, still feel like they have fallen in love, in the original sense. At some stage, there comes a point where it feels like a choice is made: Do I appreciate the person for whom they are? Do I choose to get hung up on their annoying characteristics, or do I make an effort to see them for who they are? Do I give them the security to reveal their unguarded version of themselves? And so on. This applies to all human relationships, even to one’s children. We can close our minds and avoid or hate, or we can overcome and seek. That is what I think the author meant with love. “Falling in love”, is not the kind of love that is chosen.

cypherpunks01 4y ago
Thanks for the perspective, you make some good points on the evolution and changes of love that can become more of a free choice with time.

fsckboy 4y ago

real love without free will is like two magnets attracting, i.e. nothing to glorify. I'm not saying that I or OP have solved any thorny free will philosophical problem, but the first step is recognizing the problem. If you believe two magnets attracting is what love is, that's fine, but promise me you'll tell that to your spouse in your vows and on every anniversary and make sure your kids don't start to imagine that you are anything but a choiceless automaton in your feelings toward them. Please don't use chatGPT to write their birthday cards, chatGPT is liable to convey feelings.

cypherpunks01 4y ago
Promise I will henceforth cease to write their bday cards using GPT : )
Brian_K_White 4y ago
Even "nothing to glorify" leaves room to interpret poorly. I would say it is fine to revel in, but no special virtue. If it really is beyond choice, then it's no better than a form of lust. It can still be fine to experience and engage in, but it doesn't make the participants heros or good people, or bad.