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Let me start by saying that, as a San Francisco resident of almost 20 years, I agree with the central thesis of the post: San Francisco is a something hole that

Let me start by saying that, as a San Francisco resident of almost 20 years, I agree with the central thesis of the post: San Francisco is a something hole that I'd leave in a heartbeat if the decision was solely mine. But I don't think this is the post to defend that position. It seems to be driven principally by emotion, chooses odd stats to make it's points, and when it talks about decriminalization of "things" it doesn't get any more specific than I just did. I get that the author is angry; understandably so. I think there is a coherent argument to be made supporting the author's assertions. I just don't think this author in this post has actually advanced their own point. I do think that it is critical for a serious, as opposed to emotional, response to what the author is seeing to be made. Otherwise worse for San Francisco is on the way.

gsibble 4y ago
When I see CNN saying San Francisco isn't that dangerous and comparing it to Houston, Atlanta, and Chicago, the thing that immediately comes to mind is how much more dense that crime is in San Francisco and how much that affects the safety of, say, walking around the city. So, while these may be somewhat emotional arguments, San Francisco has a serious problem that I see it doing nothing to address, which is why I left in 2018, and many people continue to just deny it has any problem at all, hiding behind these "stats" among other things. The first step in fixing a problem is admitting you have one and San Francisco won't even do that.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  > the thing that immediately comes to mind is how much more dense that crime is in San Francisco I saw this same idea in the San Francisco subreddit today, and it's the first time I've ever heard of expressing crime per square mile as any kind of statistic. It seems like reaching for some way in which San Francisco is extraordinary when it's realized that the per capita crime numbers aren't particularly out of line with any other major US city. But other cities have crime too. I live in south Texas, and anecdotally my house was broken into twice in 2021, my parent's neighbors' house was left vacant and was subsequently ransacked and had a vehicle stolen as well. Just this week their electrician's shop was burgled and only a strong gate prevented the thieves from getting away with his truck, but they still stole $20K in tools and wire. A few years ago one of my co-workers was shot to death by his wife. It's clear that San Francisco has some idiosyncrasies of its own, but I think the US is just a particularly dangerous country in the developed world.
  - gsibble 4y ago
    I've lived in many other parts of the US (Nashville, Boston, Houston, and Los Angeles) and nowhere have I come anywhere close to experiencing the crime of San Francisco. It's not even remotely comparable. Anecdotally.
  - pas 4y ago
    the density thread seems interesting, if you have the link on hand can you share it? "how much more dense that crime is in San Francisco" ... does this comparison control for population density?
    - hotpotamus 4y ago
      https://old.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/12dzsbv/as_someone_who_got_stabbed_a_year_ago_stop/ https://old.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/12dzsbv/as_so... was the thread.
at_a_remove 4y ago
So, I am going to draw a parallel now. Here in St. Louis we have a District Attorney who ran on an activist platform of some kind who, like the San Francisco DA who was eventually recalled, just didn't prosecute. Over and over. Car thefts, sex crimes, whatever. Murder charges get re-filed and re-filed. Grumble grumble grumble. The flashpoint was a recent event in which one of the guys whom she ought have to have sent to jail a long time back (violated probation boundaries over ninety times according to his ankle monitor, among other things), got pretty excited to drive and some teenage girl from a visiting volleyball league is now minus her legs, because this guy wasn't much of a driver. Bang! And grumble grumble grumble is now a lot of noise. I suspect this is similar. We'll probably find someone with an awful lot of priors, maybe a violated parole, did the stabbing, and then folks will say, "Well, if this guy was in the slam like he belongs, this wouldn't have happened." Bob Lee may serve as the unfortunate face of some unpleasant statistics.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- gsibble 4y ago
  Very well could. These progressive DAs are such a mistake. As was the defund the police movement.
- pas 4y ago
  > , just didn't prosecute. which is false, unsurprisingly. bulglaries ... prosecutors had filed charges in about 66% of the cases and filed motions to revoke probation in about 82% of cases. prosecuted 35 of 61 (57%) sexual assault cases requested for prosecution by police. what you point out is the real tragedy. due to the brutal level of overall crime the small ones slip through the system. which results in criminals going free for a long time. the level of deterrence is very low. on top of all this the prison system makes things worse, but there's currently no alternative. it's a multifaceted systemic problem (underfunded overly-brutal and excessively inefficient police department, politicized prosecution, underfunded public defender system, and the cherry on top is the lack of reintegration for convicts; the probation system is unnecessarily cruel and also inefficient)

gsibble 4y ago

When I see CNN saying San Francisco isn't that dangerous and comparing it to Houston, Atlanta, and Chicago, the thing that immediately comes to mind is how much more dense that crime is in San Francisco and how much that affects the safety of, say, walking around the city. So, while these may be somewhat emotional arguments, San Francisco has a serious problem that I see it doing nothing to address, which is why I left in 2018, and many people continue to just deny it has any problem at all, hiding behind these "stats" among other things. The first step in fixing a problem is admitting you have one and San Francisco won't even do that.

hotpotamus 4y ago
> the thing that immediately comes to mind is how much more dense that crime is in San Francisco I saw this same idea in the San Francisco subreddit today, and it's the first time I've ever heard of expressing crime per square mile as any kind of statistic. It seems like reaching for some way in which San Francisco is extraordinary when it's realized that the per capita crime numbers aren't particularly out of line with any other major US city. But other cities have crime too. I live in south Texas, and anecdotally my house was broken into twice in 2021, my parent's neighbors' house was left vacant and was subsequently ransacked and had a vehicle stolen as well. Just this week their electrician's shop was burgled and only a strong gate prevented the thieves from getting away with his truck, but they still stole $20K in tools and wire. A few years ago one of my co-workers was shot to death by his wife. It's clear that San Francisco has some idiosyncrasies of its own, but I think the US is just a particularly dangerous country in the developed world.
- gsibble 4y ago
  I've lived in many other parts of the US (Nashville, Boston, Houston, and Los Angeles) and nowhere have I come anywhere close to experiencing the crime of San Francisco. It's not even remotely comparable. Anecdotally.
- pas 4y ago
  the density thread seems interesting, if you have the link on hand can you share it? "how much more dense that crime is in San Francisco" ... does this comparison control for population density?
  - hotpotamus 4y ago
    https://old.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/12dzsbv/as_someone_who_got_stabbed_a_year_ago_stop/ https://old.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/12dzsbv/as_so... was the thread.

at_a_remove 4y ago

So, I am going to draw a parallel now. Here in St. Louis we have a District Attorney who ran on an activist platform of some kind who, like the San Francisco DA who was eventually recalled, just didn't prosecute. Over and over. Car thefts, sex crimes, whatever. Murder charges get re-filed and re-filed. Grumble grumble grumble. The flashpoint was a recent event in which one of the guys whom she ought have to have sent to jail a long time back (violated probation boundaries over ninety times according to his ankle monitor, among other things), got pretty excited to drive and some teenage girl from a visiting volleyball league is now minus her legs, because this guy wasn't much of a driver. Bang! And grumble grumble grumble is now a lot of noise. I suspect this is similar. We'll probably find someone with an awful lot of priors, maybe a violated parole, did the stabbing, and then folks will say, "Well, if this guy was in the slam like he belongs, this wouldn't have happened." Bob Lee may serve as the unfortunate face of some unpleasant statistics.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
gsibble 4y ago
Very well could. These progressive DAs are such a mistake. As was the defund the police movement.
pas 4y ago
> , just didn't prosecute. which is false, unsurprisingly. bulglaries ... prosecutors had filed charges in about 66% of the cases and filed motions to revoke probation in about 82% of cases. prosecuted 35 of 61 (57%) sexual assault cases requested for prosecution by police. what you point out is the real tragedy. due to the brutal level of overall crime the small ones slip through the system. which results in criminals going free for a long time. the level of deterrence is very low. on top of all this the prison system makes things worse, but there's currently no alternative. it's a multifaceted systemic problem (underfunded overly-brutal and excessively inefficient police department, politicized prosecution, underfunded public defender system, and the cherry on top is the lack of reintegration for convicts; the probation system is unnecessarily cruel and also inefficient)