4 ms·

Doesn't matter what statistics say - there are lies, damn lies, and statistics, as they say. I know with my own eyes that SF is dangerous. There is a criminal e

Doesn't matter what statistics say - there are lies, damn lies, and statistics, as they say. I know with my own eyes that SF is dangerous. There is a criminal element intermixed with your daily life, forcing you to be on guard in most outdoor interactions. This might be my bias, I should be OK with drug addicts strung out on the sidewalk, I'm just privileged, blah blah. Don't care. ~6 years ago we went out to get lunch with a company I was visiting, and a guy came onto the patio and just screamed at the top of his lungs for several minutes before walking away. Everyone there just considered it normal, the servers kept serving, everyone just stared at their plates or phones as this screaming banshee went "AHHHH AHHH AHHHH [breathe] AHH AHHHHHH AHHHHHHHHHHH" among everyone eating. Absurd. How do you live like this?

gsibble 4y ago
I mean, all you need to know San Francisco is dangerous is to look around while you are there.
hotpotamus 4y ago
My uncle has schizophrenia and were he not housed in a a mobile home paid for by my father, would probably be up to something like the guy you encountered. But I suppose the question is what legal remedy is there for someone yelling at you? What would you like to have happened to this guy?
- DamnYuppie 4y ago
  I would like for them to be removed from society until that can behave in a civil manner.
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    The programmer in me suspects that's a form of hiding bugs instead of fixing them...
    - khazhoux 4y ago
      The programmer in me is reminded of those bugs that never ever get fixed, year after year, because everybody shoots down anyone’s proposal, until finally someone comes in and just takes care of it, by ignoring all the hand-wringers.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  > what legal remedy is there for someone yelling at you? The yelling guy was almost certainly a drug user, so you shouldn't need a legal remedy for yelling, since you should have one for using drugs.
  - hotpotamus 4y ago
    Drug use is not a crime anywhere that I'm aware of. I believe the actual crime is possession.
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      Doesn't that still give a legal remedy? Police just need to watch him until he takes his next hit and then arrest him once he gets the drugs out of wherever he was hiding them.
      - rokkitmensch 4y ago
        You have the seed of an excellent fiction story here! Let's invent a job that's not even law enforcement, where the duties are to accept assignment to monitor another citizen for arbitrary rulebreaking until they do so, at which point this employee records the offense with their perpetually-recording device (which we can imagine to be thermo-electrically powered so as to not even need one of those annoying off switches modern LE are so fond of actuating). Hire criteria will have to be at least a masters degree in order to absorb the excess baristas in the labor market, and our main character can start off nonplussed by the job but at least it pays better than selling tech bros and babes steamed "milk" with various additives (aside: is there an appropriately gender-neutral infantilizing term for the non-cis?), and Hiro Protagonist needs to pay down their educational debt. Over the course of the story we can enjoy the waffling between "this is a very important job", "i really need to make my student loan payment for once this quarter", and "holy doodle I'm really doing Satan/Capital's own work out here" as the character: builds personal relationships with the monitored classes (let's throw annoying children in to prod a proper diversity of pearl clutchers!); observes the necessity of pruning their own habitats of undesirables; and grows familiar with the Karens who file monitoring requests (and their variously un/reasonable monitoring requests). We can even throw a crumb to the SV satire tropes and structure their employer as a Citizen-alike "private policing" disruptor -- this will be an excellent JPod-style send-up of the gig economy. For bonus points, really play up the internal torture this main character endures as their finger hovers over the "request monitoring" button for the variously ill in their own neighborhood. I think they should start off entirely repulsed by the notion of calling the cops on their fellow franchisee, but eventually get beaten into cognitive submission to the new model. This is gold, josephcsible! If only we could get it through the reams of LLM pap clogging the traditional sci-fi outlets. I couldn't actually sketch the twist and denounment, that'd be actually...writing.
lsllc 4y ago
Last time I was in SF was probably 10 years ago for WWDC (back in the days when you actually could sign up for it!) I'd been going every year for a few years. We made the mistake (just ONCE) of sitting outside at a restaurant on the patio, it was a beautiful, warm June evening (amazingly the fog stayed away). Crazy guy came onto the patio and started screaming and harassing people, everyone (incl. the staff) just seemed to just ignore it. Never sat outside again. TFA is right in that in other cities the crime is mostly gang related vs SF where the victims are mostly ordinary people going about their business. Back then SF was a total shit hole (literally), I can't imagine what it's like now.
- gsibble 4y ago
  Thank you. Everyone else here asking for sources when all you need is common sense.
vineyardmike 4y ago
> Absurd. How do you live like this? For better or worse, this exists in most cities. It’s absolutely not unique to any one city. Not saying this is a good thing or something we shouldn’t try to fix. Also this guy wasn’t dangerous. You can see it with your own eyes but this guy is inconvenient and annoying but not dangerous.
- monero-xmr 4y ago
  I cannot possibly disagree more, living in a top 20 American city and being someone who generally only exists in cities (I hate bugs). This is 100% an SF thing, and if you disagree I think you need to travel more.
  - gsibble 4y ago
    Agreed.
  - pas 4y ago
    Reading about these encounters with crazy people ... these also happen in Europe too. The gang violence doesn't.
  - threatofrain 4y ago
    The 12 of the top 20 American cities by population have a higher homicide rate than SF.
- gsibble 4y ago
  Are you kidding? It most certainly does not exist in most cities. Stop pretending SF doesn't have a serious problem.
- zmnd 4y ago
  I bet you are from SF or Seattle where the whole “this exists in all cities” is used as justification. I’ve been to most big cities in the US and it’s not the case. I feel fairly safe to walk outside at 2 AM in New York. In contrast every time I go to SF I’m either personally harassed by a random homeless person or witnessing someone else being harassed. I wouldn’t even go outside that late.

gsibble 4y ago

I mean, all you need to know San Francisco is dangerous is to look around while you are there.

hotpotamus 4y ago

My uncle has schizophrenia and were he not housed in a a mobile home paid for by my father, would probably be up to something like the guy you encountered. But I suppose the question is what legal remedy is there for someone yelling at you? What would you like to have happened to this guy?

DamnYuppie 4y ago
I would like for them to be removed from society until that can behave in a civil manner.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  The programmer in me suspects that's a form of hiding bugs instead of fixing them...
  - khazhoux 4y ago
    The programmer in me is reminded of those bugs that never ever get fixed, year after year, because everybody shoots down anyone’s proposal, until finally someone comes in and just takes care of it, by ignoring all the hand-wringers.
josephcsible 4y ago
> what legal remedy is there for someone yelling at you? The yelling guy was almost certainly a drug user, so you shouldn't need a legal remedy for yelling, since you should have one for using drugs.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  Drug use is not a crime anywhere that I'm aware of. I believe the actual crime is possession.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    Doesn't that still give a legal remedy? Police just need to watch him until he takes his next hit and then arrest him once he gets the drugs out of wherever he was hiding them.
    - rokkitmensch 4y ago
      You have the seed of an excellent fiction story here! Let's invent a job that's not even law enforcement, where the duties are to accept assignment to monitor another citizen for arbitrary rulebreaking until they do so, at which point this employee records the offense with their perpetually-recording device (which we can imagine to be thermo-electrically powered so as to not even need one of those annoying off switches modern LE are so fond of actuating). Hire criteria will have to be at least a masters degree in order to absorb the excess baristas in the labor market, and our main character can start off nonplussed by the job but at least it pays better than selling tech bros and babes steamed "milk" with various additives (aside: is there an appropriately gender-neutral infantilizing term for the non-cis?), and Hiro Protagonist needs to pay down their educational debt. Over the course of the story we can enjoy the waffling between "this is a very important job", "i really need to make my student loan payment for once this quarter", and "holy doodle I'm really doing Satan/Capital's own work out here" as the character: builds personal relationships with the monitored classes (let's throw annoying children in to prod a proper diversity of pearl clutchers!); observes the necessity of pruning their own habitats of undesirables; and grows familiar with the Karens who file monitoring requests (and their variously un/reasonable monitoring requests). We can even throw a crumb to the SV satire tropes and structure their employer as a Citizen-alike "private policing" disruptor -- this will be an excellent JPod-style send-up of the gig economy. For bonus points, really play up the internal torture this main character endures as their finger hovers over the "request monitoring" button for the variously ill in their own neighborhood. I think they should start off entirely repulsed by the notion of calling the cops on their fellow franchisee, but eventually get beaten into cognitive submission to the new model. This is gold, josephcsible! If only we could get it through the reams of LLM pap clogging the traditional sci-fi outlets. I couldn't actually sketch the twist and denounment, that'd be actually...writing.

lsllc 4y ago

Last time I was in SF was probably 10 years ago for WWDC (back in the days when you actually could sign up for it!) I'd been going every year for a few years. We made the mistake (just ONCE) of sitting outside at a restaurant on the patio, it was a beautiful, warm June evening (amazingly the fog stayed away). Crazy guy came onto the patio and started screaming and harassing people, everyone (incl. the staff) just seemed to just ignore it. Never sat outside again. TFA is right in that in other cities the crime is mostly gang related vs SF where the victims are mostly ordinary people going about their business. Back then SF was a total shit hole (literally), I can't imagine what it's like now.

gsibble 4y ago
Thank you. Everyone else here asking for sources when all you need is common sense.

vineyardmike 4y ago

> Absurd. How do you live like this? For better or worse, this exists in most cities. It’s absolutely not unique to any one city. Not saying this is a good thing or something we shouldn’t try to fix. Also this guy wasn’t dangerous. You can see it with your own eyes but this guy is inconvenient and annoying but not dangerous.

monero-xmr 4y ago
I cannot possibly disagree more, living in a top 20 American city and being someone who generally only exists in cities (I hate bugs). This is 100% an SF thing, and if you disagree I think you need to travel more.
- gsibble 4y ago
  Agreed.
- pas 4y ago
  Reading about these encounters with crazy people ... these also happen in Europe too. The gang violence doesn't.
- threatofrain 4y ago
  The 12 of the top 20 American cities by population have a higher homicide rate than SF.
gsibble 4y ago
Are you kidding? It most certainly does not exist in most cities. Stop pretending SF doesn't have a serious problem.
zmnd 4y ago
I bet you are from SF or Seattle where the whole “this exists in all cities” is used as justification. I’ve been to most big cities in the US and it’s not the case. I feel fairly safe to walk outside at 2 AM in New York. In contrast every time I go to SF I’m either personally harassed by a random homeless person or witnessing someone else being harassed. I wouldn’t even go outside that late.