3 ms·

As long as right-wingers hate what other people do with their own bodies, probably.

notyourwork 4y ago
Beyond tiring.
all2 4y ago
For the right wingers it is a moral issue that has a few facets - a child in the womb is distinct from its mother (according to some, as soon as new DNA starts being produced) - the only difference between a grown human and one in the womb is time (and their resulting growth and development) - to stop a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine wall is tantamount to murder - to abort said child at any point in time during pregnancy is murder This places the conservative in an existentially horrifying position; every post conception contraceptive is murder. Those who use them are murderers. I'd say hate is probably the right word to use. There is a second thread underlying the vehement opposition to abortion, and that is the disdain for free love. They see it as extra-marital sex, fornication, adultery, and ultimately an affront to their God's commands and design for his humans are supposed to act. Their opposition is an existential one. To abandon their position would be to condemn millions more to die.
- voisin 4y ago
  > Their opposition is an existential one. To abandon their position would be to condemn millions more to die. I know this is how they like to frame it but we don’t see them feeling the same existential angst about things like wearing a mask to prevent the spread of a viral disease around people who might be immune compromised and die as a result. Then it becomes “the government has no right over my body”. It is exhausting how contradictory conservative positions are.
  - cudgy 4y ago
    Left wing has contradictory positions as well, in fact most people do, especially when their position is being defined by those that oppose their position.
    - voisin 4y ago
      Could you give some examples?
      - rayiner 4y ago
        [flagged]
        kaba0 4y ago
        So, 911 was just a bunch of people as well? Because that’s less than the amount of people who died every single day at the height of COVID.
        rayiner 4y ago
        9/11 was deliberate killing.
        kaba0 4y ago
        The same way not wearing a fking mask/vaccinating oneself is, when we live in a society with many people whose immune system is weakened.
        rayiner 4y ago
        Doing something that statistically increases risk to others is not deliberate killing. See: every philosophy book.
        kaba0 4y ago
        Shooting someone statistically increases their risk of death. Where is the cutoff line?
      - RestlessMind 4y ago
        Caring for poor but not building houses for them (eg. SF). In similar vein, caring for environment but then use environment protection laws to prevent any housing, thus forcing hours of commute (and hence environment destruction) on the society. Poverty trap and idiotic structuring of welfare programs, such that obtaining a job would result in massive marginal tax hike and thus disincentivizes poors to get a job and climb economic ladder. Caring for minorities and diversity but ignoring Asians from that analysis (or worse, treating Asians as Whites / White-adjacents).
  - rayiner 4y ago
    There is no contradiction here. Both liberals and conservatives recognize that direct action that kills someone is worse than failing to take a precaution that results in a statistically increased risk to others. Speeding is less bad than drunk driving, which is less bad than intentional running someone over with a car. It’s entirely consistent for conservatives to say that the government should be able to ban you from killing a fetus, while also saying that the government shouldn’t be able to make you take a precaution to reduce a contagious disease. The difference between liberals and conservatives turns on how they view the morality of the direct and deliberate act of killing a fetus. Conservatives think it’s closer to killing a person, while liberals think it’s closer to killing a bug. Neither position is inconsistent.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  > post conception contraceptive Unless someone invented a time machine and didn't tell me, there's no such thing as a post conception contraceptive.
- kaba0 4y ago
  Strangely enough they don’t give a damn about any human not in a womb, like hunger, universal healthcare, helping those in need, school shooter victims, etc. It’s only murder when its someone else’s body and decision.
  - RestlessMind 4y ago
    > they don’t give a damn about any human not in a womb, like hunger, universal healthcare, helping those in need, school shooter victims, etc. As an independent who has voted for D positions more often than for R's, I say that's a false characterization. A lot of conservative positions give a damn about say, hunger or healthcare. They just don't give a damn about the policies proposed by the left. Often times, I agree with them when I peer under the hood. Classic example is climate change and green new deal, which had a bunch of stuff totally unrelated and unneeded for climate change. Same with poverty trap[0] - a lot of conservatives argue that our welfare programs are actually hurting the poor and there are good logical arguments backing them. Another example, look at housing affordability - conservative approach (Texas) beats progressive approach (California) by miles. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Family:_The_Case_For_National_Action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Family:_The_Case_For...
    - MisterBastahrd 4y ago
      Texas has a lot more available housing because Texas is full of people who are looking to get rich off of land investments made by their ancestors. Very few conservatives give a damn about hunger or healthcare. Their solutions are almost invariably non-governmental entities tied to coercive religious indoctrination. Anyone can go on youtube and pull up hundreds of instances of conservative lawmakers arguing against school breakfast and lunch programs for poor children, as if "personal responsibility" has fuck-all to do with the ability of a CHILD to concentrate in class on an empty stomach. Hell, Milton Friedman believed that public schools should be abolished as an indirect method to resegregate the school system.
- lazyasciiart 4y ago
  No, in fact, right wingers are pretty consistently unwilling to actually treat women who have abortions as murderers. They don't support the death penalty for them, they consistently agree that it doesn't count if the pregnancy is a result of rape or incest, and (male or female) they consistently participate in it themselves. Say what you want about right wingers: if they actually were all so morally bankrupt that they would commit murder at the rates they commit abortion, we'd have fallen into civil war long ago.

Beyond tiring.

all2 4y ago

For the right wingers it is a moral issue that has a few facets - a child in the womb is distinct from its mother (according to some, as soon as new DNA starts being produced) - the only difference between a grown human and one in the womb is time (and their resulting growth and development) - to stop a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine wall is tantamount to murder - to abort said child at any point in time during pregnancy is murder This places the conservative in an existentially horrifying position; every post conception contraceptive is murder. Those who use them are murderers. I'd say hate is probably the right word to use. There is a second thread underlying the vehement opposition to abortion, and that is the disdain for free love. They see it as extra-marital sex, fornication, adultery, and ultimately an affront to their God's commands and design for his humans are supposed to act. Their opposition is an existential one. To abandon their position would be to condemn millions more to die.

voisin 4y ago
> Their opposition is an existential one. To abandon their position would be to condemn millions more to die. I know this is how they like to frame it but we don’t see them feeling the same existential angst about things like wearing a mask to prevent the spread of a viral disease around people who might be immune compromised and die as a result. Then it becomes “the government has no right over my body”. It is exhausting how contradictory conservative positions are.
- cudgy 4y ago
  Left wing has contradictory positions as well, in fact most people do, especially when their position is being defined by those that oppose their position.
  - voisin 4y ago
    Could you give some examples?
    - rayiner 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - kaba0 4y ago
        So, 911 was just a bunch of people as well? Because that’s less than the amount of people who died every single day at the height of COVID.
        rayiner 4y ago
        9/11 was deliberate killing.
        kaba0 4y ago
        The same way not wearing a fking mask/vaccinating oneself is, when we live in a society with many people whose immune system is weakened.
        rayiner 4y ago
        Doing something that statistically increases risk to others is not deliberate killing. See: every philosophy book.
        kaba0 4y ago
        Shooting someone statistically increases their risk of death. Where is the cutoff line?
    - RestlessMind 4y ago
      Caring for poor but not building houses for them (eg. SF). In similar vein, caring for environment but then use environment protection laws to prevent any housing, thus forcing hours of commute (and hence environment destruction) on the society. Poverty trap and idiotic structuring of welfare programs, such that obtaining a job would result in massive marginal tax hike and thus disincentivizes poors to get a job and climb economic ladder. Caring for minorities and diversity but ignoring Asians from that analysis (or worse, treating Asians as Whites / White-adjacents).
- rayiner 4y ago
  There is no contradiction here. Both liberals and conservatives recognize that direct action that kills someone is worse than failing to take a precaution that results in a statistically increased risk to others. Speeding is less bad than drunk driving, which is less bad than intentional running someone over with a car. It’s entirely consistent for conservatives to say that the government should be able to ban you from killing a fetus, while also saying that the government shouldn’t be able to make you take a precaution to reduce a contagious disease. The difference between liberals and conservatives turns on how they view the morality of the direct and deliberate act of killing a fetus. Conservatives think it’s closer to killing a person, while liberals think it’s closer to killing a bug. Neither position is inconsistent.
josephcsible 4y ago
> post conception contraceptive Unless someone invented a time machine and didn't tell me, there's no such thing as a post conception contraceptive.
kaba0 4y ago
Strangely enough they don’t give a damn about any human not in a womb, like hunger, universal healthcare, helping those in need, school shooter victims, etc. It’s only murder when its someone else’s body and decision.
- RestlessMind 4y ago
  > they don’t give a damn about any human not in a womb, like hunger, universal healthcare, helping those in need, school shooter victims, etc. As an independent who has voted for D positions more often than for R's, I say that's a false characterization. A lot of conservative positions give a damn about say, hunger or healthcare. They just don't give a damn about the policies proposed by the left. Often times, I agree with them when I peer under the hood. Classic example is climate change and green new deal, which had a bunch of stuff totally unrelated and unneeded for climate change. Same with poverty trap[0] - a lot of conservatives argue that our welfare programs are actually hurting the poor and there are good logical arguments backing them. Another example, look at housing affordability - conservative approach (Texas) beats progressive approach (California) by miles. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Family:_The_Case_For_National_Action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Family:_The_Case_For...
  - MisterBastahrd 4y ago
    Texas has a lot more available housing because Texas is full of people who are looking to get rich off of land investments made by their ancestors. Very few conservatives give a damn about hunger or healthcare. Their solutions are almost invariably non-governmental entities tied to coercive religious indoctrination. Anyone can go on youtube and pull up hundreds of instances of conservative lawmakers arguing against school breakfast and lunch programs for poor children, as if "personal responsibility" has fuck-all to do with the ability of a CHILD to concentrate in class on an empty stomach. Hell, Milton Friedman believed that public schools should be abolished as an indirect method to resegregate the school system.
lazyasciiart 4y ago
No, in fact, right wingers are pretty consistently unwilling to actually treat women who have abortions as murderers. They don't support the death penalty for them, they consistently agree that it doesn't count if the pregnancy is a result of rape or incest, and (male or female) they consistently participate in it themselves. Say what you want about right wingers: if they actually were all so morally bankrupt that they would commit murder at the rates they commit abortion, we'd have fallen into civil war long ago.