3 ms·

I sometimes like to imagine the umwelt of an LLM. Tokens are their sensory atoms, and the statistical relationships between them form their entire reality. Of

I sometimes like to imagine the umwelt of an LLM. Tokens are their sensory atoms, and the statistical relationships between them form their entire reality. Of course, one could easily build a model whose tokens line up with qualia we experience.

actionfromafar 4y ago
Easily? In principle yes, but we don't have the data for it. (Yet.)
- macrolocal 4y ago
  Sure, easily. On example is vision: you'd just have to adjust input preprocessing in existing models.
kelseyfrog 4y ago
Maybe, but I've been told by folks (and curiously LLMs-themselves) that LLMs are ontologically incapable of having a what-is-it-like-to-be-ness.
- macrolocal 4y ago
  No matter what your ontological commitments happen to be, imagining what an LLM's umwelt might be like, and how it might approximate ours, is a useful (and fun!) exercise.
- ben_w 3y ago
  Every time it comes up in discussion, I find the same patterns and the same conversations. Nobody really knows what is necessary or (let alone and) sufficient for having a what-is-it-like-to-be-ness. Lots of us claim we know, but whenever I've asked for details, it's always been some combination of (α) circular, e.g. "consciousness is sentience, sentience is consciousness"; (β) something that's so vague it accidentally includes VCRs because they can record information that can be recalled later; and/or (γ) that doesn't include all humans (most often by excluding those with aphantasia and/or amnesia, but not only). So… perhaps any given LLMs does, and perhaps it doesn't. Perhaps the structure can support qualia, but only actually gets them when the training process passes the analog of a thermodynamic phase change; or perhaps, even if that's the right general idea, qualia is a different phase change that this model can't support. Unfortunately, I can't find that phase change analogy with a quick web search, so I'm not sure if that analogy has ever really been made before or if it was just a dream I've misfiled as a memory of reality.
  - macrolocal 3y ago
    Thar be dragons here, but here’s a nice overview by Chalmers: https://youtu.be/-BcuCmf00_Y https://youtu.be/-BcuCmf00_Y Personally, I’m inclined to believe that consciousness requires an integrated attention-self-world model, but maybe not much more that that.
    - ben_w 3y ago
      Chalmers? Yup, I'm definitely adding that to my Watch Later collection. Thanks!

actionfromafar 4y ago

Easily? In principle yes, but we don't have the data for it. (Yet.)

macrolocal 4y ago
Sure, easily. On example is vision: you'd just have to adjust input preprocessing in existing models.

kelseyfrog 4y ago

Maybe, but I've been told by folks (and curiously LLMs-themselves) that LLMs are ontologically incapable of having a what-is-it-like-to-be-ness.

macrolocal 4y ago
No matter what your ontological commitments happen to be, imagining what an LLM's umwelt might be like, and how it might approximate ours, is a useful (and fun!) exercise.
ben_w 3y ago
Every time it comes up in discussion, I find the same patterns and the same conversations. Nobody really knows what is necessary or (let alone and) sufficient for having a what-is-it-like-to-be-ness. Lots of us claim we know, but whenever I've asked for details, it's always been some combination of (α) circular, e.g. "consciousness is sentience, sentience is consciousness"; (β) something that's so vague it accidentally includes VCRs because they can record information that can be recalled later; and/or (γ) that doesn't include all humans (most often by excluding those with aphantasia and/or amnesia, but not only). So… perhaps any given LLMs does, and perhaps it doesn't. Perhaps the structure can support qualia, but only actually gets them when the training process passes the analog of a thermodynamic phase change; or perhaps, even if that's the right general idea, qualia is a different phase change that this model can't support. Unfortunately, I can't find that phase change analogy with a quick web search, so I'm not sure if that analogy has ever really been made before or if it was just a dream I've misfiled as a memory of reality.
- macrolocal 3y ago
  Thar be dragons here, but here’s a nice overview by Chalmers: https://youtu.be/-BcuCmf00_Y https://youtu.be/-BcuCmf00_Y Personally, I’m inclined to believe that consciousness requires an integrated attention-self-world model, but maybe not much more that that.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    Chalmers? Yup, I'm definitely adding that to my Watch Later collection. Thanks!