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What hype? Whose hype? I think it's a strawman. There is a certain class of problem that often appears on the web presentation layer -- the interaction between

What hype? Whose hype? I think it's a strawman. There is a certain class of problem that often appears on the web presentation layer -- the interaction between the browser and a cornucopia of back-end sources and systems -- where nodejs is often a very good fit, and it is almost always what enthusiasts of the platform are speaking of. That's it. Nothing more. I've seen various angry retorts that opine that become it isn't suitable for various very unsuitable purposes (see - calculating prime numbers, etc), it sucks. Such misdirection has no place in this industry.

jeremymcanally 15y ago
If you've spent any appreciable amount of time on Hacker News, you'd know that there has been pretty big hype behind Node.js. If you don't see it, you're not paying attention. Anecdotally, I work with a lot of fairly inexperienced developers with my clients, and I honestly can't tell you how many times they've suggested we "rewrite (x) in Node.js because it's faster" or "let's switch this to Redis" with no real reason behind it. When one digs down, we eventually arrive at "I read a blog post that said it was real fast and stuff." I like Node a lot. I think it solves some hard problems, but just like NoSQL, TDD, and a bevy of other things, they're not silver bullets even if they're painted like one.
- huggyface 15y ago
  If you've spent any appreciable amount of time on Hacker News, you'd know that there has been pretty big hype behind Node.js A considerable percentage of HN's visitors deal in exactly the realm that node.js serves: that gooey layer between browser and back-end systems. This is like complaining that coffee enthusiasts are interested in burr grinders when it's entirely unsuitable for chipping tree branches. There is no surprise that many HNers find node.js interesting and exciting.
  - jeremymcanally 15y ago
    Sure, like I said, it solves some really hard problems and makes some architectures easier to execute on. But frankly, about 20-30% (probably made up percentage alert :)) of the stuff I people using Node.js for on HN is really just tech wankery. There's no real reason to be using Node.js for it, even though they will tell you that it's the only thing that worked for that possible problem! Likewise, another 10-20% is people converting working code from a perfectly suitable technology to Node.js because it's the new cool thing. It's not that either of these cases is "wrong." They know their problems better than I do. But I've been doing web development for about 10 years, I've seen this cycle a few times, and I know that every new tech has ridiculous adherents that do that stuff (e.g., Rails went through the same cycle except for "productivity reasons"). Everything looks like an old and busted nail when you have a new and shiny hammer I guess.
- grannyg00se 15y ago
  "When one digs down, we eventually arrive at "I read a blog post that said it was real fast and stuff."" That doesn't show that there was too much hype. That just shows there is enough popularity for an inexperienced developer to find it on their radar. If it was overly hyped, you'd find a lot of experienced developers blogging about how they were horribly mislead and that node doesn't do what it advertises.
  - 0x0 15y ago
    And then you get blogposts like this: http://teddziuba.com/2011/10/node-js-is-cancer.html http://teddziuba.com/2011/10/node-js-is-cancer.html
    - grannyg00se 15y ago
      Which amounts to "I don't like javascript, I don't like things that don't work the way I like to work, and I love strawmen."
- InclinedPlane 15y ago
  A lot of buzz about Node shouldn't be confused with a lot of "hype". If people are talking about something a lot and using it for very specific projects that's very different from people evangelizing it as a silver bullet solution for everything.
  - sausagefeet 15y ago
    A lot of buzz can qualify has "hype" in my opinion. Node has gotten a lot of attention over the past year, just like Erlang got a few years before and Haskell in there too. The only difference people actually started using Node.
- moe 15y ago
  or "let's switch this to Redis" Don't throw node and redis in the same bucket please.
  - democracy 15y ago
    And why not? Both are trying to solve a problem 99% of developers do not have.
- rehack 15y ago
  I endorse your view. Its puzzling to see how in a very silly manner, so many people just want to be "fashionable" when it comes to use of tech. The FB engineer in his interview (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3527419 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3527419) says it just about right that "Technology is a great servant but a terrible master"!
jerf 15y ago
If you do not already think it has been hyped, I am at a loss as to how to prove it to you. Let me put it this way: Why do we hear so much about Node when it's just another event-based single-threaded "asynchronous" execution environment running on a dynamic language, like half-a-dozen others that preceded it? Basically, it won the hype lottery. Whatever nice things you may have to say about it apply reasonably well to the half-dozen predecessors, too.
- huggyface 15y ago
  All else isn't the same. For one, this event-based, single-threaded "asynchronous" execution environment running on a dynamic language uses javascript, which is a surprisingly powerful functional language that just happens to run on the other side of the web server conversation in the context that we are discussing. Being able to standardize and coalesce the two sides of the web pipeline -- regardless of what magic happened at the other layers -- has obvious merits.
  - apgwoz 15y ago
    Calling JavaScript a functional language on the pure basis that it has first class functions and closures is sort of stupid. Aside from that, what other properties does JS enforce that are deemed functional? I'll save you some time: none.
    - huggyface 15y ago
      My interest in having a boring argument with a language bigot approaches nil. But yes, aside from the very namesake of functional programming (a vague language grouping with no disciplined definition), yeah there's nothing else there...groan.
      - apgwoz 15y ago
        You are correct in saying that functional programming has a vague meaning. For JavaScript, I'll accept the meaning: functional: adj, produces a correct result example usage: Despite its many warts, inadequacies, somehow JavaScript is actually functional.
izaguf 15y ago
There is lots of enthusiasts who post hyperbole like https://twitter.com/travisglines/status/163735891964203008 https://twitter.com/travisglines/status/163735891964203008

jeremymcanally 15y ago

If you've spent any appreciable amount of time on Hacker News, you'd know that there has been pretty big hype behind Node.js. If you don't see it, you're not paying attention. Anecdotally, I work with a lot of fairly inexperienced developers with my clients, and I honestly can't tell you how many times they've suggested we "rewrite (x) in Node.js because it's faster" or "let's switch this to Redis" with no real reason behind it. When one digs down, we eventually arrive at "I read a blog post that said it was real fast and stuff." I like Node a lot. I think it solves some hard problems, but just like NoSQL, TDD, and a bevy of other things, they're not silver bullets even if they're painted like one.

huggyface 15y ago
If you've spent any appreciable amount of time on Hacker News, you'd know that there has been pretty big hype behind Node.js A considerable percentage of HN's visitors deal in exactly the realm that node.js serves: that gooey layer between browser and back-end systems. This is like complaining that coffee enthusiasts are interested in burr grinders when it's entirely unsuitable for chipping tree branches. There is no surprise that many HNers find node.js interesting and exciting.
- jeremymcanally 15y ago
  Sure, like I said, it solves some really hard problems and makes some architectures easier to execute on. But frankly, about 20-30% (probably made up percentage alert :)) of the stuff I people using Node.js for on HN is really just tech wankery. There's no real reason to be using Node.js for it, even though they will tell you that it's the only thing that worked for that possible problem! Likewise, another 10-20% is people converting working code from a perfectly suitable technology to Node.js because it's the new cool thing. It's not that either of these cases is "wrong." They know their problems better than I do. But I've been doing web development for about 10 years, I've seen this cycle a few times, and I know that every new tech has ridiculous adherents that do that stuff (e.g., Rails went through the same cycle except for "productivity reasons"). Everything looks like an old and busted nail when you have a new and shiny hammer I guess.
grannyg00se 15y ago
"When one digs down, we eventually arrive at "I read a blog post that said it was real fast and stuff."" That doesn't show that there was too much hype. That just shows there is enough popularity for an inexperienced developer to find it on their radar. If it was overly hyped, you'd find a lot of experienced developers blogging about how they were horribly mislead and that node doesn't do what it advertises.
- 0x0 15y ago
  And then you get blogposts like this: http://teddziuba.com/2011/10/node-js-is-cancer.html http://teddziuba.com/2011/10/node-js-is-cancer.html
  - grannyg00se 15y ago
    Which amounts to "I don't like javascript, I don't like things that don't work the way I like to work, and I love strawmen."
InclinedPlane 15y ago
A lot of buzz about Node shouldn't be confused with a lot of "hype". If people are talking about something a lot and using it for very specific projects that's very different from people evangelizing it as a silver bullet solution for everything.
- sausagefeet 15y ago
  A lot of buzz can qualify has "hype" in my opinion. Node has gotten a lot of attention over the past year, just like Erlang got a few years before and Haskell in there too. The only difference people actually started using Node.
moe 15y ago
or "let's switch this to Redis" Don't throw node and redis in the same bucket please.
- democracy 15y ago
  And why not? Both are trying to solve a problem 99% of developers do not have.
rehack 15y ago
I endorse your view. Its puzzling to see how in a very silly manner, so many people just want to be "fashionable" when it comes to use of tech. The FB engineer in his interview (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3527419 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3527419) says it just about right that "Technology is a great servant but a terrible master"!

jerf 15y ago

If you do not already think it has been hyped, I am at a loss as to how to prove it to you. Let me put it this way: Why do we hear so much about Node when it's just another event-based single-threaded "asynchronous" execution environment running on a dynamic language, like half-a-dozen others that preceded it? Basically, it won the hype lottery. Whatever nice things you may have to say about it apply reasonably well to the half-dozen predecessors, too.

huggyface 15y ago
All else isn't the same. For one, this event-based, single-threaded "asynchronous" execution environment running on a dynamic language uses javascript, which is a surprisingly powerful functional language that just happens to run on the other side of the web server conversation in the context that we are discussing. Being able to standardize and coalesce the two sides of the web pipeline -- regardless of what magic happened at the other layers -- has obvious merits.
- apgwoz 15y ago
  Calling JavaScript a functional language on the pure basis that it has first class functions and closures is sort of stupid. Aside from that, what other properties does JS enforce that are deemed functional? I'll save you some time: none.
  - huggyface 15y ago
    My interest in having a boring argument with a language bigot approaches nil. But yes, aside from the very namesake of functional programming (a vague language grouping with no disciplined definition), yeah there's nothing else there...groan.
    - apgwoz 15y ago
      You are correct in saying that functional programming has a vague meaning. For JavaScript, I'll accept the meaning: functional: adj, produces a correct result example usage: Despite its many warts, inadequacies, somehow JavaScript is actually functional.

izaguf 15y ago

There is lots of enthusiasts who post hyperbole like https://twitter.com/travisglines/status/163735891964203008 https://twitter.com/travisglines/status/163735891964203008