5 ms·

But that would require an accessible WiFi network. I'm sure someday it'll be impossible because they'll embed 5G chips and do it over cell without involving yo

But that would require an accessible WiFi network. I'm sure someday it'll be impossible because they'll embed 5G chips and do it over cell without involving your consent, but that day isn't here yet.

ghayes 3y ago
Simple, just put it in a Faraday cage.
- modriano 3y ago
  The mesh would have to be so fine that you wouldn't be able to see the screen (unless you were inside the "cage").
  - lancesells 3y ago
    Simple, go wired and encase the house in a faraday cage.
    - eropple 3y ago
      Really, anyone who's lived in a sufficiently old house knows you can run your own Wi-Fi in a Faraday cage. Just probably not between rooms.
      - lostlogin 3y ago
        Underfloor foil insulation works pretty well as a cage. It also adds a nice electrocution risk when installing and is banned in my area for this reason.
        eropple 3y ago
        Metal lath under the plaster. Ripping that out was a mess.
    - xattt 3y ago
      Houses finished with stucco tend to do this as a side effect, since stucco is applied onto a fine metal grid screwed to framing.
  - tzs 3y ago
    Google is telling me that the mesh for a Faraday cage that would block WiFi could have hole sizes up to about 5 mm. Suppose you made your faraday cage (or at least the part that goes in front of the screen) out of 40 gauge wire (0.07874 mm diameter) with the wires spaced 2.25 mm apart. On a 70" 4K TV a pixel is about 0.4 mm x 0.4 mm. If the mesh were close to the screen I think about 30% of the pixels would have wire in front of them. Of those 30%, 1/6 would both a horizontal and a vertical wire in front (let's not go crazy and talk about orienting the mesh diagonally or anything like that), and 5/6 would only have one wire in front of them. So that's 70% of pixels not interfered with, 25% having one wire in front of them, and 5% having two wires. The 25% with one wire crossing would have about 20% of the pixel occluded by the wire. The 5% with two wires crossing them would have about 36% occluded. My guess is that the screen could be seen pretty well through that.
    - hilbert42 3y ago
      Make life easy, just stop RF getting to and from your TV by cutting the WiFi, Bluetooth and mobile antenna leads.
- tomcam 3y ago
  It’s not that simple. The Faraday cage I got from Costco seems to phone home to a server in China. Obviously I returned it and used the money to buy a whole lot of tinfoil.
  - samtho 3y ago
    I’m… not sure if you are joking.
    - all2 3y ago
      Quarter inch mesh is pretty cheap at the local hardware big box. It'd be good for attenuation up to 7ish Ghz. I've seriously considered getting a roll and building a cage. There's also emf paint that one could use.
    - tomcam 3y ago
      Joking sorry
- YurgenJurgensen 3y ago
  Surely, grounding the aerial would be the simpler option, right?
- lostlogin 3y ago
  It’s surprising how cages work. The MR one at work will leak if the door is open .5mm, it lets blue tooth and wifi through and some phone calls. Works pretty well for MR at 3T (which is actually more like 2.89T) though - 125Mhz ish.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    Anyone who says that "blocking" wifi is easy is someone who hasn't tried. Even very expensive professionally built cages don't "block", they attenuate. And modern wifi equipment is surprisingly good at working just fine with weak signals.
- cultureswitch 3y ago
  I'm thinking a scrambler might be more effective.
giobox 3y ago
I've seen rumblings that day may be very soon, too. Once devices in the home have embedded prepaid 5G out with your control, all sorts of home networking/firewall challenges are going to arise. We are entering a world in which it will cost very, very little to embed 5G into almost anything with say 1GB of prepaid eSim data for analytics collection, regardless of whether device resides on your LAN or not.
- ed25519FUUU 3y ago
  There’s only a fractional amount of people using smart TVs without WiFi. I’m very dubious it’s worth the cost to imbed GSM cards in each TV to reach the fraction that doesn’t allow the TV on WiFi.
  - midasuni 3y ago
    Large portion of those who currently don’t connect will faraday cage their connection to remove the ability too. Then of course there’s a lack of 5G. I certainly don’t have any where I live. Just about have 1 bar of 4g near the window.
  - rhn_mk1 3y ago
    If that happens, it's going to be to reach those who can't set up wifi manually. It's better user experience not to have to, leading to fewer returns.
  - YurgenJurgensen 3y ago
    It would simplify setup for non-technical consumers. I'm sure people complain about having to input a WiFi password with a TV remote. WiFi/Cellular convergence as a concept also doesn't seem like the most unlikely future.
    - gruez 3y ago
      > It would simplify setup for non-technical consumers. I'm sure people complain about having to input a WiFi password with a TV remote. So they'll add a $50 LTE/5G modem to the BOM just to save the trouble of entering a password using arrow keys, a process that takes maybe 2-3 minutes?
AlexAltea 3y ago
This already happens with Nespresso coffee machines (they have an SIM that connects to the Internet, whether you want it or not). That day is already yesterday.
- robocat 3y ago
  A SIM? Reference?
- shrike 3y ago
  Wow, they sure do. Page 29 of the user guide for the Nespresso Zenius says - This coffee machine is equipped with M2M (Machine to Machine) techology which may be activated in due time with your agreement. Thanks to a SIM card already integrated in the machine, such network connections will offer new services (subject to further terms and conditions) to its customers and improve the after sales process by automatically communicating machine troubleshooting / diagnostics to our Customer Relationship Centre (depending on country requirements and specificities). https://www.nespresso.com/shared_res/manuals/zenius/www_Zenius_Z2B_Nespresso(EN).pdf https://www.nespresso.com/shared_res/manuals/zenius/www_Zeni...
  - oblio 3y ago
    I imagine that can be disabled physically?
    - YurgenJurgensen 3y ago
      I also imagine that naïve attempts to disable it would be interpreted as a way of defeating some kind of always-online DRM on the coffee pods. And if coffee pods don't come with always-online DRM yet, I'm honestly surprised at Nespresso's lack of dedication to this dystopia.
      - hilbert42 3y ago
        If that's the case then it cannot be used in any place/location where there is no signal. If so, then there would be hell to pay the first time if happened. If it works sans connection, then do what I've said elsewwhere and that's to cut or short out the antenna lead. Removing the SIM may be deemed provocative by the manufacturer, if there's no signal reception then that's a different matter (the user can't be blamed).
philsnow 3y ago
I think the most likely next steps is integrating with Amazon Sidewalk instead of 5G. I don't know what the relative availability of 5G signal vs Sidewalk signal is, but I'm pretty sure Amazon has a dashboard tracking the latter.
girvo 3y ago
It’ll be 4G, because NB-IoT is already here and pretty excellent for data collection.
hilbert42 3y ago
"…they'll embed 5G chips and do it over cell without involving your consent," There'd be hell to pay if they ever did that. Moreover, it'd be impossible to keep the fact quiet if deployed at any reasonable scale. A much bigger looming threat is the possible closure of terrestrial Free-to-Air TV broadcasting (it was an early agenda item to be discussed at the 2028 WARC/WRC (World Administrative Radio Conference) but was dropped early on. That it ever got there in the first instance is a very big worry, it shows that people in high places have been or are considering such a move).
vhcr 3y ago
It doesn't sounds so crazy to shield a house from electromagnetic radiation (Faraday cage).

But that would require an accessible WiFi network. I'm sure someday it'll be impossible because they'll embed 5G chips and do it over cell without involving your consent, but that day isn't here yet.

ghayes 3y ago

Simple, just put it in a Faraday cage.

modriano 3y ago
The mesh would have to be so fine that you wouldn't be able to see the screen (unless you were inside the "cage").
- lancesells 3y ago
  Simple, go wired and encase the house in a faraday cage.
  - eropple 3y ago
    Really, anyone who's lived in a sufficiently old house knows you can run your own Wi-Fi in a Faraday cage. Just probably not between rooms.
    - lostlogin 3y ago
      Underfloor foil insulation works pretty well as a cage. It also adds a nice electrocution risk when installing and is banned in my area for this reason.
      - eropple 3y ago
        Metal lath under the plaster. Ripping that out was a mess.
  - xattt 3y ago
    Houses finished with stucco tend to do this as a side effect, since stucco is applied onto a fine metal grid screwed to framing.
- tzs 3y ago
  Google is telling me that the mesh for a Faraday cage that would block WiFi could have hole sizes up to about 5 mm. Suppose you made your faraday cage (or at least the part that goes in front of the screen) out of 40 gauge wire (0.07874 mm diameter) with the wires spaced 2.25 mm apart. On a 70" 4K TV a pixel is about 0.4 mm x 0.4 mm. If the mesh were close to the screen I think about 30% of the pixels would have wire in front of them. Of those 30%, 1/6 would both a horizontal and a vertical wire in front (let's not go crazy and talk about orienting the mesh diagonally or anything like that), and 5/6 would only have one wire in front of them. So that's 70% of pixels not interfered with, 25% having one wire in front of them, and 5% having two wires. The 25% with one wire crossing would have about 20% of the pixel occluded by the wire. The 5% with two wires crossing them would have about 36% occluded. My guess is that the screen could be seen pretty well through that.
  - hilbert42 3y ago
    Make life easy, just stop RF getting to and from your TV by cutting the WiFi, Bluetooth and mobile antenna leads.
tomcam 3y ago
It’s not that simple. The Faraday cage I got from Costco seems to phone home to a server in China. Obviously I returned it and used the money to buy a whole lot of tinfoil.
- samtho 3y ago
  I’m… not sure if you are joking.
  - all2 3y ago
    Quarter inch mesh is pretty cheap at the local hardware big box. It'd be good for attenuation up to 7ish Ghz. I've seriously considered getting a roll and building a cage. There's also emf paint that one could use.
  - tomcam 3y ago
    Joking sorry
YurgenJurgensen 3y ago
Surely, grounding the aerial would be the simpler option, right?
lostlogin 3y ago
It’s surprising how cages work. The MR one at work will leak if the door is open .5mm, it lets blue tooth and wifi through and some phone calls. Works pretty well for MR at 3T (which is actually more like 2.89T) though - 125Mhz ish.
- kube-system 3y ago
  Anyone who says that "blocking" wifi is easy is someone who hasn't tried. Even very expensive professionally built cages don't "block", they attenuate. And modern wifi equipment is surprisingly good at working just fine with weak signals.
cultureswitch 3y ago
I'm thinking a scrambler might be more effective.

giobox 3y ago

I've seen rumblings that day may be very soon, too. Once devices in the home have embedded prepaid 5G out with your control, all sorts of home networking/firewall challenges are going to arise. We are entering a world in which it will cost very, very little to embed 5G into almost anything with say 1GB of prepaid eSim data for analytics collection, regardless of whether device resides on your LAN or not.

ed25519FUUU 3y ago
There’s only a fractional amount of people using smart TVs without WiFi. I’m very dubious it’s worth the cost to imbed GSM cards in each TV to reach the fraction that doesn’t allow the TV on WiFi.
- midasuni 3y ago
  Large portion of those who currently don’t connect will faraday cage their connection to remove the ability too. Then of course there’s a lack of 5G. I certainly don’t have any where I live. Just about have 1 bar of 4g near the window.
- rhn_mk1 3y ago
  If that happens, it's going to be to reach those who can't set up wifi manually. It's better user experience not to have to, leading to fewer returns.
- YurgenJurgensen 3y ago
  It would simplify setup for non-technical consumers. I'm sure people complain about having to input a WiFi password with a TV remote. WiFi/Cellular convergence as a concept also doesn't seem like the most unlikely future.
  - gruez 3y ago
    > It would simplify setup for non-technical consumers. I'm sure people complain about having to input a WiFi password with a TV remote. So they'll add a $50 LTE/5G modem to the BOM just to save the trouble of entering a password using arrow keys, a process that takes maybe 2-3 minutes?

AlexAltea 3y ago

This already happens with Nespresso coffee machines (they have an SIM that connects to the Internet, whether you want it or not). That day is already yesterday.

robocat 3y ago
A SIM? Reference?
shrike 3y ago
Wow, they sure do. Page 29 of the user guide for the Nespresso Zenius says - This coffee machine is equipped with M2M (Machine to Machine) techology which may be activated in due time with your agreement. Thanks to a SIM card already integrated in the machine, such network connections will offer new services (subject to further terms and conditions) to its customers and improve the after sales process by automatically communicating machine troubleshooting / diagnostics to our Customer Relationship Centre (depending on country requirements and specificities). https://www.nespresso.com/shared_res/manuals/zenius/www_Zenius_Z2B_Nespresso(EN).pdf https://www.nespresso.com/shared_res/manuals/zenius/www_Zeni...
- oblio 3y ago
  I imagine that can be disabled physically?
  - YurgenJurgensen 3y ago
    I also imagine that naïve attempts to disable it would be interpreted as a way of defeating some kind of always-online DRM on the coffee pods. And if coffee pods don't come with always-online DRM yet, I'm honestly surprised at Nespresso's lack of dedication to this dystopia.
    - hilbert42 3y ago
      If that's the case then it cannot be used in any place/location where there is no signal. If so, then there would be hell to pay the first time if happened. If it works sans connection, then do what I've said elsewwhere and that's to cut or short out the antenna lead. Removing the SIM may be deemed provocative by the manufacturer, if there's no signal reception then that's a different matter (the user can't be blamed).

philsnow 3y ago

I think the most likely next steps is integrating with Amazon Sidewalk instead of 5G. I don't know what the relative availability of 5G signal vs Sidewalk signal is, but I'm pretty sure Amazon has a dashboard tracking the latter.

girvo 3y ago

It’ll be 4G, because NB-IoT is already here and pretty excellent for data collection.

hilbert42 3y ago

"…they'll embed 5G chips and do it over cell without involving your consent," There'd be hell to pay if they ever did that. Moreover, it'd be impossible to keep the fact quiet if deployed at any reasonable scale. A much bigger looming threat is the possible closure of terrestrial Free-to-Air TV broadcasting (it was an early agenda item to be discussed at the 2028 WARC/WRC (World Administrative Radio Conference) but was dropped early on. That it ever got there in the first instance is a very big worry, it shows that people in high places have been or are considering such a move).

vhcr 3y ago

It doesn't sounds so crazy to shield a house from electromagnetic radiation (Faraday cage).