5 ms·

I’m curious. What is so incredible about it?

by SanderNL 4y ago

jacquesm 4y ago
That by rights this country shouldn't exist, and that if we aren't careful soon it will stop to exist.
- jeremyw 4y ago
  Any recommended material to learn about fragility in the Dutch system? You've made a number of comments in this vein. Do you see it as apart from the cycle of the successful? Wherein we slowly relax the effort is took to make success. And then deny these efforts altogether, and create fantasies of what _really_ brought success.
  - WJW 4y ago
    I think jacquesm means that rising sea levels (due to climate change) is a particular problem for a country where much of the land is below sea level.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      Yep.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    I'm writing this from ~sea level, and there are large parts of the country around me that are below sea level, some more than just a little bit, think 2 to 3 meters and in extremes more than 6. As the sea level rises the risk of storm surges increases quite a bit. We have essentially barricaded the country against the sea up to a certain point. But beyond that the country would flood much like a bathtub would and even if all those barriers are closed the rivers will pour in water from the other side. Managing all this is tricky in the short term, difficult in the mid term and quite possibly impossible in the longer term if the sea level rise is more than anticipated when these defenses were built. And you can only raise them so much, if rivers no longer flow out then you'll end up flooded anyway.
    - cultureswitch 4y ago
      The Netherlands are perhaps surprisingly one of the best equipped countries today to deal with sea water rise. Why? Because they have unparalleled experience with it. Other regions of the world that have been routinely under sea level for centuries such as much of SE Asia dealt with the problem differently in a way that might not scale as well to a consistent increase.
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        And in spite of all that we are still very much at risk.
    - jeremyw 4y ago
      Ah, I misunderstood. Thanks for the kind reply.
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  By rights it should exist because the Dutch made it so. They have done so for hundreds of years in a period when the sea level was rising slightly and will most likely continue to do so, especially seeing how as modern technology makes it much easier to keep the polders (reclaimed land) dry.
  - namaria 4y ago
    It certainly is an energy and compute intensive country and it shows. I mean, they are the sole providers of the top machinery for making arguably the most valuable commodity ever, microchips. And the second exporter of agricultural products with an area similar to Maine to boot...
withinboredom 4y ago
I moved here in 2018, it truly is an incredible country. Imagine the romanticized '60's-70's in the US ... but with technology.

I’m curious. What is so incredible about it?

jacquesm 4y ago

That by rights this country shouldn't exist, and that if we aren't careful soon it will stop to exist.

jeremyw 4y ago
Any recommended material to learn about fragility in the Dutch system? You've made a number of comments in this vein. Do you see it as apart from the cycle of the successful? Wherein we slowly relax the effort is took to make success. And then deny these efforts altogether, and create fantasies of what _really_ brought success.
- WJW 4y ago
  I think jacquesm means that rising sea levels (due to climate change) is a particular problem for a country where much of the land is below sea level.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Yep.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  I'm writing this from ~sea level, and there are large parts of the country around me that are below sea level, some more than just a little bit, think 2 to 3 meters and in extremes more than 6. As the sea level rises the risk of storm surges increases quite a bit. We have essentially barricaded the country against the sea up to a certain point. But beyond that the country would flood much like a bathtub would and even if all those barriers are closed the rivers will pour in water from the other side. Managing all this is tricky in the short term, difficult in the mid term and quite possibly impossible in the longer term if the sea level rise is more than anticipated when these defenses were built. And you can only raise them so much, if rivers no longer flow out then you'll end up flooded anyway.
  - cultureswitch 4y ago
    The Netherlands are perhaps surprisingly one of the best equipped countries today to deal with sea water rise. Why? Because they have unparalleled experience with it. Other regions of the world that have been routinely under sea level for centuries such as much of SE Asia dealt with the problem differently in a way that might not scale as well to a consistent increase.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      And in spite of all that we are still very much at risk.
  - jeremyw 4y ago
    Ah, I misunderstood. Thanks for the kind reply.
the_third_wave 4y ago
By rights it should exist because the Dutch made it so. They have done so for hundreds of years in a period when the sea level was rising slightly and will most likely continue to do so, especially seeing how as modern technology makes it much easier to keep the polders (reclaimed land) dry.
- namaria 4y ago
  It certainly is an energy and compute intensive country and it shows. I mean, they are the sole providers of the top machinery for making arguably the most valuable commodity ever, microchips. And the second exporter of agricultural products with an area similar to Maine to boot...

withinboredom 4y ago

I moved here in 2018, it truly is an incredible country. Imagine the romanticized '60's-70's in the US ... but with technology.