4 ms·

I oppose efforts to legalize gambling not because I dislike gambling but I oppose the theft that we call legalized gambling.

jacquesm 4y ago
The same theft is present in the lotteries and those are more often than not national affairs with the common pot as the beneficiary. Have you ever seen a wealthy person play the lottery?
- bombcar 4y ago
  Lotteries don't even have the semblance of legitimacy that allowing church bingo parlors does; they're exclusively an optional tax on the poorest members of society. Then again, so many of our sin taxes are.
  - IncRnd 4y ago
    From "Who is buying Powerball and Mega Millions tickets?" [1] > The general belief is that poorer Americans buy lottery tickets more often than wealthier ones. But that's not quite true. > The survey showed the most frequent lottery players earn between $36,000 and $89,999. About 56% of that group bought tickets in the last year. Fewer of those making under $36,000 bought tickets, only 40%. About 53% who make above $90,000 bought a ticket. [1] https://money.cnn.com/2018/01/06/news/powerball-mega-millions-who-buys/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2018/01/06/news/powerball-mega-million...
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Keep reading: >But other studies have shown that when lower income players do buy tickets, they spend far more money on lottery tickets than wealthier players. A study published in the Journal of Gambling Studies found that those in the bottom fifth of income spent the most on lottery tickets, and more than twice as much as the richest lottery players - $433 a year vs. $193 a year. Most everyone buys a Powerball ticket when it hits a cool billion or whatever it is; but that's not the vast majority of lottery enjoyers.
      - IncRnd 4y ago
        Keep reading: > The poorer lottery players also buy far more of the lower prize games, such as scratch-off instant games which account for the majority of lottery sales. > The richer buyers are buying the multi-state jackpot games such as Powerball and Mega Millions. And the wealthier players are likely to be drawn in by the big jackpot prizes like those being offered right now by both Powerball and Mega Millions. The lotteries are not exclusively taxing the poorest members of society, which is what you originally claimed.
- toast0 4y ago
  > Have you ever seen a wealthy person play the lottery? I am one. Although, I only enter once per drawing, and only when the pot is large enough that I can pretend it's +EV. There's a lot of games where I can't even pretend it's even close to reasonable odds, and I don't get much entertainment, so I'll leave those alone. I do think casinos tend to be regulated to pay back a way higher % than lotteries though.
  - late2part 4y ago
    I don't think this EV means what you think it means :)
    - toast0 4y ago
      Look, when the lump sum jackpot is greater than cost to play * number of possible selections, and I assume that only I will win, then it's a good move to play. The trick is not looking at the financially nonsense sum of payments advertised total. Anyone who was taken business finance knows you can't add a dollar today with a dollar in a year; they're not the same unit; but it makes a better advertised number, so there you go.
- secabeen 4y ago
  The most well-known wealthy lottery winner was Jack Whittaker. His life went downhill after winning, largely due to the winnings and the notoriety. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Whittaker_%28lottery_winner%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Whittaker_%28lottery_winn...
Pulcinella 4y ago
Interesting fact: As far as I am aware, it’s illegal to gamble at the casino in Monte Carlo unless you are a foreigner (I.e. it is not legal for citizens of Monaco to gamble there). Probably because the country isn’t actually bringing in any new money if locals gamble. There really is no reason to legalize gambling casinos. It is just an inefficient way of moving money around. It doesn’t actually create new value for society as a whole. (Friendly poker games amongst friends and family with small pots are probably fine).
- bagels 4y ago
  There's an argument that the casino provides entertainment/thrill in exchange for money. I think your argument could be applied to most money spent on entertainment if you don't consider it to be creating "new value for society as a whole"
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- pmoriarty 4y ago
  "There really is no reason to legalize gambling casinos." When you make gambling illegal you just drive it underground and fund organized crime, with all the additional crime and corruption that brings with it. The arguments against making gambling illegal are similar to many of the arguments against making drugs and prostitution illegal, such as consenting adults should be free to do what they want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.
  - Arrath 4y ago
    I'd like if we could find a middle ground between gambling prohibition and ads for gambling right from your phone in every break of sports broadcasts as the situation we're quickly finding ourselves in.
    - GCA10 4y ago
      Slightly off topic, but the profusion of weird prop bets on sports is a path toward quiet match fixing that we may never be able to roll back. I'm seeing this in e-sports already, where players can still try hard to win but also "accommodate" gamblers who are betting on odd metrics like over/under on total kills, etc.

jacquesm 4y ago

The same theft is present in the lotteries and those are more often than not national affairs with the common pot as the beneficiary. Have you ever seen a wealthy person play the lottery?

bombcar 4y ago
Lotteries don't even have the semblance of legitimacy that allowing church bingo parlors does; they're exclusively an optional tax on the poorest members of society. Then again, so many of our sin taxes are.
- IncRnd 4y ago
  From "Who is buying Powerball and Mega Millions tickets?" [1] > The general belief is that poorer Americans buy lottery tickets more often than wealthier ones. But that's not quite true. > The survey showed the most frequent lottery players earn between $36,000 and $89,999. About 56% of that group bought tickets in the last year. Fewer of those making under $36,000 bought tickets, only 40%. About 53% who make above $90,000 bought a ticket. [1] https://money.cnn.com/2018/01/06/news/powerball-mega-millions-who-buys/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2018/01/06/news/powerball-mega-million...
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Keep reading: >But other studies have shown that when lower income players do buy tickets, they spend far more money on lottery tickets than wealthier players. A study published in the Journal of Gambling Studies found that those in the bottom fifth of income spent the most on lottery tickets, and more than twice as much as the richest lottery players - $433 a year vs. $193 a year. Most everyone buys a Powerball ticket when it hits a cool billion or whatever it is; but that's not the vast majority of lottery enjoyers.
    - IncRnd 4y ago
      Keep reading: > The poorer lottery players also buy far more of the lower prize games, such as scratch-off instant games which account for the majority of lottery sales. > The richer buyers are buying the multi-state jackpot games such as Powerball and Mega Millions. And the wealthier players are likely to be drawn in by the big jackpot prizes like those being offered right now by both Powerball and Mega Millions. The lotteries are not exclusively taxing the poorest members of society, which is what you originally claimed.
toast0 4y ago
> Have you ever seen a wealthy person play the lottery? I am one. Although, I only enter once per drawing, and only when the pot is large enough that I can pretend it's +EV. There's a lot of games where I can't even pretend it's even close to reasonable odds, and I don't get much entertainment, so I'll leave those alone. I do think casinos tend to be regulated to pay back a way higher % than lotteries though.
- late2part 4y ago
  I don't think this EV means what you think it means :)
  - toast0 4y ago
    Look, when the lump sum jackpot is greater than cost to play * number of possible selections, and I assume that only I will win, then it's a good move to play. The trick is not looking at the financially nonsense sum of payments advertised total. Anyone who was taken business finance knows you can't add a dollar today with a dollar in a year; they're not the same unit; but it makes a better advertised number, so there you go.
secabeen 4y ago
The most well-known wealthy lottery winner was Jack Whittaker. His life went downhill after winning, largely due to the winnings and the notoriety. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Whittaker_%28lottery_winner%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Whittaker_%28lottery_winn...

Pulcinella 4y ago

Interesting fact: As far as I am aware, it’s illegal to gamble at the casino in Monte Carlo unless you are a foreigner (I.e. it is not legal for citizens of Monaco to gamble there). Probably because the country isn’t actually bringing in any new money if locals gamble. There really is no reason to legalize gambling casinos. It is just an inefficient way of moving money around. It doesn’t actually create new value for society as a whole. (Friendly poker games amongst friends and family with small pots are probably fine).

bagels 4y ago
There's an argument that the casino provides entertainment/thrill in exchange for money. I think your argument could be applied to most money spent on entertainment if you don't consider it to be creating "new value for society as a whole"
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
pmoriarty 4y ago
"There really is no reason to legalize gambling casinos." When you make gambling illegal you just drive it underground and fund organized crime, with all the additional crime and corruption that brings with it. The arguments against making gambling illegal are similar to many of the arguments against making drugs and prostitution illegal, such as consenting adults should be free to do what they want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.
- Arrath 4y ago
  I'd like if we could find a middle ground between gambling prohibition and ads for gambling right from your phone in every break of sports broadcasts as the situation we're quickly finding ourselves in.
  - GCA10 4y ago
    Slightly off topic, but the profusion of weird prop bets on sports is a path toward quiet match fixing that we may never be able to roll back. I'm seeing this in e-sports already, where players can still try hard to win but also "accommodate" gamblers who are betting on odd metrics like over/under on total kills, etc.